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Acebrock
Minster of Plenty
Post #19428
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun 2006-03-12 22:40
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| Politics: Libertarian-Socialist |
Country: United States of Oppression |
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| GR wrote: |
I think there should be a required course introduced into schools - a course called, Understanding Politics, that should be taught starting in 6th grade and up through high school, and would focus on teaching the students how to see through biased material, propaganda, and to see what motivates the government. If everyone in America had taken classes like that, I think the country would be a better place by far.
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Yeah I think such a class should be taught, though I don't think it'll happen. Politicians perpetuate their own power through propagnda, so if it was even suggested to them they would flat out refuse I think, unless they were in the minority, and even then they'd probably say no.
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Da Jerm
Junior Spy
Post #19443
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 05:34
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Ingsoc Officer- Thank you so much! I have been thinking about that since I posted it and i felt so dumb for not remember (but was of course to proud/lazy to look it up).
Takino- I fear burgertopia.......
Drzhen-As I'm fond of saying "Apathy is death"
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #19447
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 06:11
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| Politics: Technocratism |
Country: Titan |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Ingsoc Officer wrote: |
Quite a few Germans voted for the NSDAP, but they had to exploit technical weaknesses in the German constitution to get a majority in the Reichstag.
| From Wikipedia |
The 9th and last German federal election of the Weimar Republic was held on March 5, 1933, and was significant in that it was the last election to be held in Germany before World War II. Due to the success of the Nazi Party in the poll, its leader, and Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler was able to pass the Enabling Act, which effectively gave him the power of a dictator.
The election took place shortly after the Reichstag fire, in which the German parliament was set alight, allegedly by a Dutch Communist, Marinus van der Lubbe. This event had the joint effect of lowering the popularity of the KPD, and enabling Hitler to persuade President Hindenberg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree. This emergency law removed many civil liberties and allowed the arrest of the leaders of the KPD shortly before the election, further deriding the Communists and consolidating the position of the Nazis. Hence, the fire is widely believed to have had a major effect on the outcome of the election.
However, despite achieving a much better result than in the November 1932 election, the Nazis did not do as well as Hitler had hoped, polling 43.9%, rather than the 50+% that he had expected. Therefore, he was forced to maintain his coalition with the Nationalist DNVP to control a majority. In addition to this, Hitler needed a two-thirds majority to pass the Enabling Act (a law which allowed him to pass laws without consulting the Reichstag), which he gained by persuading the Centre Party to vote with him. The bill was passed on March 23 and though it was only meant to be effective for four years, it was formally prolonged twice. The powers gained from the bill allowed the KPD and SPD to be outlawed, and firmly established Germany as a dictatorship. |
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That's interesting, but it doesn't disprove the fact that the German people elected Hitler. It still happened. That of course doesn't mean democracy is bad, it just means that democracy is only as smart as the voters.
| Ingsoc Officer wrote: |
| I can't possibly agree more. |
I agreewise.
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #19522
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 23:23
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Sweden |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Gold Rust wrote: |
| However, I think the US needs to revaluate its education system - its a mess. Though I don't have any children myself, my older sister does and I have seen up close the type of propaganda they feed children in our schools - its sickening. |
Since neither sorianofan nor any other poster with experience of the American education seem to be inclined to start a thread on this topic, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that a probably quite prejudiced Swedish teacher will do it.
| Gold Rust wrote: |
| I think there should be a required course introduced into schools - a course called, Understanding Politics, that should be taught starting in 6th grade and up through high school, and would focus on teaching the students how to see through biased material, propaganda, and to see what motivates the government. If everyone in America had taken classes like that, I think the country would be a better place by far. |
I think applying critical thinking would be enough. If the students would know how to evaluate sources and examine motives, most propaganda efforts would be futile. |
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #19523
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 23:24
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Sweden |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Da Jerm wrote: |
| Ingsoc Officer- Thank you so much! I have been thinking about that since I posted it and i felt so dumb for not remember (but was of course to proud/lazy to look it up). |
Well, shit happens. |
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Zoon
Minister of Truth
Post #19529
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 23:35
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Russia |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| IO wrote: |
| Since neither sorianofan nor any other poster with experience of the American education seem to be inclined to start a thread on this topic, I'm afraid that you will have to accept that a probably quite prejudiced Swedish teacher will do it. |
On the contrary, I think an outside-of-the-US teacher would be far more reliable as a source on the subject, though maybe not as knowlegdable. After all, you don't have your pride lying on the fence when it comes to the subject - they would. If I was an American teacher and someone accused the schools of feeding children propogand I imagine I would defend my position quite rabidly.
| Quote: |
| I think applying critical thinking would be enough. If the students would know how to evaluate sources and examine motives, most propaganda efforts would be futile. |
True, but a class specificly aimed at politics could focus on present issues as well - I can imagine the debates that would spring forth, with the students themselves defending their own arguements. I can't think of a single class that would give Americans a more experienced veiw on politics.
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #19530
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 23:39
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Sweden |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Gold Rust wrote: |
| On the contrary, I think an outside-of-the-US teacher would be far more reliable as a source on the subject, though maybe not as knowlegdable. After all, you don't have your pride lying on the fence when it comes to the subject - they would. If I was an American teacher and someone accused the schools of feeding children propogand I imagine I would defend my position quite rabidly. |
You have a point.
| Gold Rust wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think applying critical thinking would be enough. If the students would know how to evaluate sources and examine motives, most propaganda efforts would be futile. |
True, but a class specificly aimed at politics could focus on present issues as well - I can imagine the debates that would spring forth, with the students themselves defending their own arguements. I can't think of a single class that would give Americans a more experienced veiw on politics. |
It would be quite difficult for a teacher to be completely objective in such a class. Just by setting the agenda for the lesson, you affect the thinking of the students. |
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Zoon
Minister of Truth
Post #19535
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Posted: Mon 2006-03-13 23:53
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Russia |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Quote: |
| It would be quite difficult for a teacher to be completely objective in such a class. Just by setting the agenda for the lesson, you affect the thinking of the students. |
Maybe if the class existed, the teacher would simply bring up a subject and have the children research it on their own.
When I was in 6th - 8th grade, the school I went to offered a class called "Extended Studies" - by testing into the class, students could miss every Monday of school and attend the class if they chose - I personally found the class to be much more stimulating than the rest of school, so I attended. One of our only assignments was that each 9 weeks we would have to present compiled reports with specific length requirements that evade me now. We managed our own research time, and get this - we could do it on *anything* we wanted - some people chose occult, scientific, political or historical subjects - she didn't care. One person in my class did a report on the emotional effects of rape, and the teacher didn't stop them. But there was another catch - the assignment was not graded on how accurate or well compiled it was (thought they did matter somewhat), it was graded on how well you could convince the audience that your POV was the best. By trying to compile a biased report, we each learned several ways to identify biased reports. One of my favorite tricks was the [they meant to say this] trick. - I think I learned more in that class than in any of my others. A class like that would teach kids so many things - how to manage their own time (unfortunately, a lot of kids would not be ready to do this in the 6th grade) - how to form independent ideas, how to recognize propaganda and biased information, etc.
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #19599
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Posted: Tue 2006-03-14 17:51
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Sweden |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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This reminds me quite much of pedagogic methods in Swedish schools.
Last edited by Ingsoc Officer on Wed 2006-03-15 20:43; edited 1 time in total |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #19633
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Tue 2006-03-14 21:32
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| Politics: Technocratism |
Country: Titan |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Gold Rust wrote: |
Maybe if the class existed, the teacher would simply bring up a subject and have the children research it on their own.
When I was in 6th - 8th grade, the school I went to offered a class called "Extended Studies" - by testing into the class, students could miss every Monday of school and attend the class if they chose - I personally found the class to be much more stimulating than the rest of school, so I attended. One of our only assignments was that each 9 weeks we would have to present compiled reports with specific length requirements that evade me now. We managed our own research time, and get this - we could do it on *anything* we wanted - some people chose occult, scientific, political or historical subjects - she didn't care. One person in my class did a report on the emotional effects of rape, and the teacher didn't stop them. But there was another catch - the assignment was not graded on how accurate or well compiled it was (thought they did matter somewhat), it was graded on how well you could convince the audience that your POV was the best. By trying to compile a biased report, we each learned several ways to identify biased reports. One of my favorite tricks was the [they meant to say this] trick. - I think I learned more in that class than in any of my others. A class like that would teach kids so many things - how to manage their own time (unfortunately, a lot of kids would not be ready to do this in the 6th grade) - how to form independent ideas, how to recognize propaganda and biased information, etc. |
If I were still in school, I think I would enjoy being in such a class. Having a teacher assign a topic, and we, the students, having to burden ourselves with a biased viewpoint. It would make for good study, and for good experience of how the world really is: political.
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