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Bible as a General Guid On How to Live Life

 
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Post Posted: Sun 2008-11-30 20:03 Reply with quote
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I previously remember a topic where the author talked about the Old Testament as a type of Iron-age health guide. It springs to mind that the New Testament then might be considered a basic guide to morality. I'm not saying I believe in God or are part of any religion but I think there may be something in it.

The New Testament shows Jesus as he travels throughout the "Holy Land" preaching tolerance, non-violence and general good behaviour.

Must say that since the end of his life the human race has been doing as good a job of straying as far from his teachings as possible. Yes Jesus probably would be against abortion as it is essentially ending a life. But pretty sure he'd be fine with homosexuality as it doesn't exactly negatively impact society or people (The ancient Greeks invented it and did pretty well for themselves).

Is this just a view that I think myself or do others agree. Is the Old Testament a guide to healthy living and the New Testament a guide to being a good person? Has the church found unreal meanings in these ancient words? And does anyone actually use this forum anymore? All of these questions and more I hope to be answered.
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Post Posted: Sun 2008-11-30 21:22 Reply with quote
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slymonkeyinc20 wrote:
I previously remember a topic where the author talked about the Old Testament as a type of Iron-age health guide. It springs to mind that the New Testament then might be considered a basic guide to morality. I'm not saying I believe in God or are part of any religion but I think there may be something in it.

The New Testament shows Jesus as he travels throughout the "Holy Land" preaching tolerance, non-violence and general good behaviour.

Must say that since the end of his life the human race has been doing as good a job of straying as far from his teachings as possible. Yes Jesus probably would be against abortion as it is essentially ending a life. But pretty sure he'd be fine with homosexuality as it doesn't exactly negatively impact society or people (The ancient Greeks invented it and did pretty well for themselves).

Is this just a view that I think myself or do others agree. Is the Old Testament a guide to healthy living and the New Testament a guide to being a good person? Has the church found unreal meanings in these ancient words? And does anyone actually use this forum anymore? All of these questions and more I hope to be answered.

*I'm sure that you're the first person I know that claimed that the OT is a guide to good health, and the NT a guide to ethics.
* What do you mean unreal meanings?
*Yes, people still use this forum. Mostly, they try to avoid Carldiesturmer (who has been harassing most of the forum for allowing Autistics and Schizophrenics into our community.) Please avoid him if at all possible.
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Post Posted: Sun 2008-11-30 23:28 Reply with quote
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slymonkeyinc20 wrote:
I previously remember a topic where the author talked about the Old Testament as a type of Iron-age health guide. It springs to mind that the New Testament then might be considered a basic guide to morality. I'm not saying I believe in God or are part of any religion but I think there may be something in it.

The New Testament shows Jesus as he travels throughout the "Holy Land" preaching tolerance, non-violence and general good behaviour.

Must say that since the end of his life the human race has been doing as good a job of straying as far from his teachings as possible. Yes Jesus probably would be against abortion as it is essentially ending a life. But pretty sure he'd be fine with homosexuality as it doesn't exactly negatively impact society or people (The ancient Greeks invented it and did pretty well for themselves).

Is this just a view that I think myself or do others agree. Is the Old Testament a guide to healthy living and the New Testament a guide to being a good person? Has the church found unreal meanings in these ancient words? And does anyone actually use this forum anymore? All of these questions and more I hope to be answered.


There's far more validity in Confucianism without the religious ramblings than in Christianity. You don't need the Jesus mythos to be a good person, nor read his stories about gouging your eyes out if you think of women, nor hear countless times how you must submit to the will of a mythical, invisible God who doesn't bother to help us.

There's probably a little bit in the New Testament that's okay, but it's like reading something by the Scientologist Church... there's probably some things in it which are good, but the whole thing is insane and meant to brainwash you. No difference between them. If you want to be a good person, do it yourself. Living your life based on a book is just a way to avoid genuine changen only to superficially change on the outside.
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Post Posted: Sun 2008-11-30 23:57 Reply with quote
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orwelliantherye wrote:
slymonkeyinc20 wrote:
I previously remember a topic where the author talked about the Old Testament as a type of Iron-age health guide. It springs to mind that the New Testament then might be considered a basic guide to morality. I'm not saying I believe in God or are part of any religion but I think there may be something in it.

The New Testament shows Jesus as he travels throughout the "Holy Land" preaching tolerance, non-violence and general good behaviour.

Must say that since the end of his life the human race has been doing as good a job of straying as far from his teachings as possible. Yes Jesus probably would be against abortion as it is essentially ending a life. But pretty sure he'd be fine with homosexuality as it doesn't exactly negatively impact society or people (The ancient Greeks invented it and did pretty well for themselves).

Is this just a view that I think myself or do others agree. Is the Old Testament a guide to healthy living and the New Testament a guide to being a good person? Has the church found unreal meanings in these ancient words? And does anyone actually use this forum anymore? All of these questions and more I hope to be answered.

*I'm sure that you're the first person I know that claimed that the OT is a guide to good health, and the NT a guide to ethics.
* What do you mean unreal meanings?
*Yes, people still use this forum. Mostly*, they try to avoid Carldiesturmer (who has been harassing most of the forum for allowing Autistics and Schizophrenics into our community.) Please avoid him if at all possible.


Nice going Rye but as we all know you're a prick and a weak and gutless prick at that, what was your posturing when Mephie went through his "Christian-Bible-thumping stage" with Sorianofan? You kept your trap shut for friendship so that means you're online posing for smugness. Twisted Evil

DOES " HARRASSING MOSTLY" MEAN YOU AND MEPH?

Gotta love those sweeping statements, do we think we are in primary school here? Laughing

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Post Posted: Mon 2008-12-01 23:57 Reply with quote
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carldiesturmer wrote:
what was your posturing when Mephie went through his "Christian-Bible-thumping stage" with Sorianofan? You kept your trap shut for friendship so that means you're online posing for smugness. Twisted Evil

All right, I'll explain this. The fact is, that the only reason I failed to confront him on his Christianity, was that I realized that this would probably pass, as most of his political affiliations had to this point (going from Satanist to Socialist to Totalitarian to Apathetic, ad infinitum.) I still wrote against religion when confronted with the subject.

carldiesturmer wrote:
DOES " HARRASSING MOSTLY" MEAN YOU AND MEPH?
Gotta love those sweeping statements, do we think we are in primary school here? Laughing

*Weasel word Twisted Evil

I suppose you're right. By this point, your harassment pool has dwindled to me, Meph, and Kirov. Of course, it was bigger once, and many regulars (from Soriano, to Ace, to Rasta) had fled the forum at least partially as a result of your harassment. This was what I was referring to.
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Post Posted: Tue 2008-12-02 00:47 Reply with quote
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slymonkeyinc20 wrote:

Is this just a view that I think myself or do others agree. Is the Old Testament a guide to healthy living and the New Testament a guide to being a good person?


Is that why the books of the new Testament were written? To makle people "good"? I suppose that was one of the reasons.

But were these books the only ones ever written with that purpose in mind? Hardly. In fact, this is probably one of the primary reasons most books are written. I mean... let's just pick a book at random...





(Book chosen completely at random)


Was one of the purposes of this book to help make people "good"? I'd say so. But this book is in no way special in this regard. The same could be said of just about any other book....Grimm's fairy tales ... Aesop's Fables... Charlottes Web .... Green Eggs and Ham. I could go on and on. So why is it that people are so hung up on this ubiquitous literary motivation when discussing the Christian canon?

Is it that this book is the best guide to "being good" ever created? Um... can anybody remember what the bible had to say about slavery, wife-beating, witch-burning, genocide, or pedophilia? If mankind's morals had not progressed in the past 2000 years, that would be pretty sad.

Was it that it was a first guide to "being good"? Some of these ideas may have been new to the ancient Jews, but they would have sounded fairly familiar to the adherents of Pythagoreanism, Buddhism, or Confucianism. And on second thought, these ideas really weren't all that new to Judaism either. The Essenes were hip to some of these ideas 100-200 years before the gospels were ever written.

So I must ask, why is it that people single out these ~2000 year old documents when looking for a storybook with a good moral lesson?
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Post Posted: Tue 2008-12-02 17:43 Reply with quote
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True I would say my morals and ethics are more determined from what I learned in Government Morals Indoctrination class. My parents did a bit as well in persuading me to "act right" however they're a liberal bunch so said I can try drugs. School didn't give me the pleasure or suggesting I at least try it. Yeah I get you're point, it is a bit of brainwashing in the bible. I immediately combated it by reading some Richard Dawkins so now I'm more against the "flying spaghetti monster" than ever before.

candlesturner does seem to be the most active member on this forum and seems to just flame people. (Correct me if that's the wrong term I'm quite new here). 1984 I thought however was more about convincing people that if they aren't vigilante then we could only too easily slip into such a desolate and bleak situation as he conveys in his novel?

Not saying all of the Bible is good. For example the Old Testament is bullshit trying to dictate how we should fear a ominous creature.
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Quote:
candlesturner does seem to be the most active member on this forum and seems to just flame people*.

(Correct me if that's the wrong term I'm quite new here). 1984 I thought however was more about convincing people that if they aren't vigilante then we could only too easily slip into such a desolate and bleak situation as he conveys in his novel?**


* "just flame people" that's a very general statement, say just two dickheads who deserve what they get, they allowed and actively pursued flaming so it is coming all back to bite them now, why feel sorry for them?
.
** At the time Orwell wrote the story it was probable, history has taken a non-linear/non-deterministic direction since then, however never let Libertarian Capitalist Triumphalism cloud the future, take heed of "The End of History, it is pure intellectual conceit.
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What is a Democratic Socialist?
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If there was any genuine meaning to the bible, it was lost long ago. The original old testament (back when it was a jewish book) was written in hebrew, and without vowels or spaces between words. The entire thing was a garbled pile of consonants, the idea being that anyone who wanted to learn all the secret knowledge in it would have to get a rabbi to tell them what all the words meant; the rabbis having passed it down orally with the written version as a reminder.

When christians decided to translate the book into greek for all the new christians to read, do you think they found a rabbis willing to help them? I don't know, but I doubt it. Christianity was in about the same cultural niche as the Branch Davidians and the Manson Family back then.
Imagine trying to put together a book which you've never read, but still know the plot of, with only the consonants.

To make matters worse, the whole godawful mess they got as a result had to be translated again: As time passed, and the main spoken language of christians shifted from greek to latin, they had to re-translate the book again.
And then, about a thousand years later, they had to do it again, from latin to english and german. And it doesn't even end there, those versions got translated over and over again into all kinds of different modernized versions.

And I don't even want to go into the censored books, the books that were left out or deemed heretical.

The oldest copy of the Old Testament we have (the dead sea scrolls, I think) date back to somewhere around 150 BC to 70 AD, which is pretty old, but the Old Testament is supposed to tell a story from 4000 years ago. So even our oldest and presumably most accurate version still had about 2000 years to get the story wrong.

And there's always more; almost every translation happened against the will of whatever church authority was in charge at the time. Every time they wanted to make the bible available to the masses, the people in charge wanted it to stay privileged information. So they all had to happen in secret, usually done by a small number of people, who were very often amateurs.

So yeah, there's better books to base your life on than the newest version of the bible... or the oldest version... or even the original version, which has probably been dust for eons.
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Post Posted: Thu 2009-01-08 13:10 Reply with quote
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Its as easy as this : Take the ten commandments and you have your guide to a good life and good manners. THat's my opinion on this , and i try to follow them as best as I can. Wink
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White Trash Beauty wrote:
Its as easy as this : Take the ten commandments and you have your guide to a good life and good manners. THat's my opinion on this , and i try to follow them as best as I can. Wink


I agree, though I figured I'd get this show of support in b4 the inevitable wisecrack about graven images and coveting your neighbor's ass.
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Tristan wrote:
White Trash Beauty wrote:
Its as easy as this : Take the ten commandments and you have your guide to a good life and good manners. THat's my opinion on this , and i try to follow them as best as I can. Wink


I agree, though I figured I'd get this show of support in b4 the inevitable wisecrack about graven images and coveting your neighbor's ass.


The thought never occurred to me. I swear.

Moving on...

1) No other gods (Except Jesus, Mary, St. Peter... )
2) No Idols (Except the Crucifix, and bleeding statues)
3) Don't abuse Jehovah's Name (except in politics)
4) Take Saturday off (Let's do Sunday instead....)
5) Obey your elders.
6) Don't murder. (Unless they are foreigners or Fags)
7) Be monogomous ( [[insert catholic priest joke here]] )
8) Don't steal ( [[insert catholic church joke here]] )
9) Don't lie ( [[insert creationist joke here]] )
10) Don't covet stuff. ( [[insert evangelist joke here]] )

Is this really the best moral guide the human race can come up with? Has mankind learned nothing since the bronze age?
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"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful." - Seneca the Younger

"It is often argued that religion is valuable because it makes men good, but even if this were true it would not be a proof that religion is true. That would be an extension of pragmatism beyond endurance. Santa Claus makes children good in precisely the same way, and yet no one would argue seriously that the fact proves his existence. The defense of religion is full of such logical imbecilities." - H. L. Mencken
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Post Posted: Fri 2009-01-09 05:01 Reply with quote
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You know something? It would be really funny if people based their choices in life and their morality on a two-thousand year old book written by people so high on local hallucinogens that it didn't matter to them they knew nothing about how the Earth is a sphere and many diseases are caused by micro-organisms (and not demons as many claimed). Heh, I'd seriously laugh if people did base their life choices on some archaic book, but luckily, the planet is filled with people who aren't mentally retarded.
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Big Brother wrote:
1) No other gods (Except Jesus, Mary, St. Peter... )
2) No Idols (Except the Crucifix, and bleeding statues)
3) Don't abuse Jehovah's Name (except in politics)
4) Take Saturday off (Let's do Sunday instead....)
5) Obey your elders.
6) Don't murder. (Unless they are foreigners or Fags)
7) Be monogomous ( [[insert catholic priest joke here]] )
8) Don't steal ( [[insert catholic church joke here]] )
9) Don't lie ( [[insert creationist joke here]] )
10) Don't covet stuff. ( [[insert evangelist joke here]] )

Is this really the best moral guide the human race can come up with? Has mankind learned nothing since the bronze age?
Yes, this is pretty much the best moral guide there is. And no, human nature hasn't changed since the bronze age. Nothing has changed. Nowadays we can worship no other gods besides the Environment. We cannot hold any sacrament except the carbon footprint. We cannot steal unless we vote to redistribute wealth. We cannot covet stuff unless we vote to redistribute wealth. We cannot abuse anyone's name, nowadays, because it's not politically correct to dispense with euphemisms. We cannot speak The Barack Obama's middle name in passing.

At least we don't have to obey our elders anymore. They're just a rival voting bloc gunning for SS and Medicare.
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carldiesturmer
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Post Posted: Sat 2009-01-10 03:57 Reply with quote
Politics: Oligarchical Collectivist Country: United States

  
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Big Brother wrote:
Tristan wrote:
White Trash Beauty wrote:
Its as easy as this : Take the ten commandments and you have your guide to a good life and good manners. THat's my opinion on this , and i try to follow them as best as I can. Wink


I agree, though I figured I'd get this show of support in b4 the inevitable wisecrack about graven images and coveting your neighbor's ass.


The thought never occurred to me. I swear.

Moving on...

1) No other gods (Except Jesus, Mary, St. Peter... )
2) No Idols (Except the Crucifix, and bleeding statues)
3) Don't abuse Jehovah's Name (except in politics)
4) Take Saturday off (Let's do Sunday instead....)
5) Obey your elders.
6) Don't murder. (Unless they are foreigners or Fags)
7) Be monogomous ( [[insert catholic priest joke here]] )
8) Don't steal ( [[insert catholic church joke here]] )
9) Don't lie ( [[insert creationist joke here]] )
10) Don't covet stuff. ( [[insert evangelist joke here]] )

Is this really the best moral guide the human race can come up with? Has mankind learned nothing since the bronze age?

Dry sense of humor yet the Libertarian Dixiecrats are missing from this picture...I gather it is 'southern thing's blind spot.
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It is a Communist who is cowardly
enough to call himself what he's not, for fear of backlash on the Semantics. It is about the "Speed" of the "Revolution".
Like Hitler said "get them persuaded and us elected"
Caveat Emptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Socialism
DO NOT USE BIG BROTHER'S LIBERTARIAN POLICIES AND BELIEFS AGAINST HIS HIMSELF AND HIS FORUM
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White Trash Beauty
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Post Posted: Sun 2009-01-11 15:52 Reply with quote
Politics: I Believe in the Power of Cheese Country: Evil Empire

  
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Its a start of a guide, isn't it?

Use the protestant view on them.

There's God , and no, Mary isn't that important , same goes for Jesus.
The crucifix is not an idol of God himself and that's what's meant in this case.
Abusing Jehovah's name is probably done the most.
It's supposed to be sunday taken off, not saturday ( that's jewish after all).

So there is really is no hassle with any of those, just that most "believers" do not obey them , although technically it wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

And then of course you can add some more rules to this , or use virtues if you want, but the virtues and sins are more outdated than the ten commandments at least in my humble opinion.
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