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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #57080
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 04:43
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| Politics: Inner Party |
Country: United States |
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| "Neutral" European collaboratist nations |
Post Rating: 3.0/4 (3 votes cast) |
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Portugal
Like the Franco regime of Spain, Portugal during the Second World War was under the control of fellow fascist Salazar. Due to centuries-old diplomatic relations, mostly favorable, with the British Empire, Portugal attempted to remain neutral during the war. However, Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union prevented her from maintaining adequate supplies of tungsten ore, which Portugal had ample supplies of and was the main European supplier. Tungsten ore has incredible resistance to high temperatures, and its alloys are resistant to physical pressures and stress, making it very useful to the German military for weaponry applications. Germany put pressure on Portugal, first by trying to get Portuguese companies to supply her with the ore, and then Germany sunk two Portuguese merchant ships, the first sinking of neutral ships in the war. Salazar eventually bowed to German pressure and agreed to supply Germany. However, near the later years of the war, Salazar granted use of the Azores to the Allies, and then announced the supply deal with Germany was to be terminated. Germany never retaliated. Portugal was also used as a smuggling center for Jews escaping certain extermination in occupied Europe. Many hundreds of thousands of Jews went through Lisbon to the United States. It should be noted that all Jews who went through Portugal survived the war.
Spain
During the 1930s, Spain suffered a civil war between the Republicans (a mixture of Communists, Socialists, Anarchists, left-wing elements, and even foreign volunteers from notably the Soviet Union, and even from the United States) and the Nationalists (right-wing elements, primarily the Spanish Fascists, supported by Germany, Italy, and Portugal to some extent). Lasting three years, some half a million Spaniards were killed before the Nationalists consolidated their power, dissolved the Spanish Republic, and gave birth to decades of Fascist rule under Franco. The German Luftwaffe made their debut in this war, famously bombing Guernica, which was to become a famous painting by Picasso. Due to the intense nature of the civil war, and Spain's long road to recovery, Franco could not join the war for years, and eventually sent the so-called Blue Division to fight in the Wehrmacht as the 250th Infantry Division on the Eastern Front. It suffered heavy casualties of about 30% of all Blue Division soldiers, many of the casualties especially caused in Leningrad, due to the cold and intense nature of the siege of Leningrad. Eventually, as Allied victory was apparent, Franco ordered the Blue Division to return home. Some thousands of Blue Division soldiers decided to continue the fight, some joining the Waffen-SS. This effectively ended Spanish support for the Nazi regime.
Sweden
Sweden tried to maintain neutrality throughout the war, although Swedish volunteers did fight for the Axis on Eastern battlefields against the Soviet Union. Throughout the war, Sweden supplied Germany with 10 million tons of high-quality iron ore every year of the war, which allowed Germany to build up its military and continue Germany's wars of aggression. During the war, Sweden allowed Germany to use its railways to transfer unarmed troops to Norway (where their weapons would be waiting), as well as allowing some quarter million German troops to pass through Sweden to reach Finland and finally Leningrad.
Switzerland
Switzerland is a heavily mountainous, and therefore, highly defendable, nation. Its military in 1939 was strong if not powerful, and following the invasion of Poland, Switzerland completely mobilized within 72 hours. The Nazi regime decided an invasion of Switzerland would be costly and be a waste of resources while better targets remained on the map. Although Switzerland's government was supposedly anti-Nazi, Allied airmen who accidentally landed or crashed in Switzerland were held until the end of the war in internment camps where many of them were subjected to extreme torture and abuse. Additionally, Switzerland played a role in the theft of assets of European Jews, allowing the Nazis to use their banking system. In some cases, Jews managing escape to Switzerland were turned over to the Nazi authorities.
Other, smaller nations like San Marino and the Vatican City did collaborate with the Axis forces, but were never substantial contributors.
So, my dear reader, is the price of peace worth aiding and abetting wars against humanity?
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Mao Zedong
Committee Leader
Post #57082
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 06:06
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| Politics: Meritocratist |
Country: American Empire |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Of the four nations listed, the nation which helped the Nazis fight their war against humanity the most was, overwhelmingly, Sweden.
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What is a "War Against Humanity"? During the 1930s, hatred against Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, Jehova Witnesses, Negros, etc. was widespread across the globe. Especially after the Great Depression, xenophobia reached epic proportions. The only reason why Hitler and the Nazis are branded as supreme evil is because of the complete annihilation of Germany allowed NATO and the USSR to rewrite history, blaming all the wrongs of the time on the Nazis.
A second concept I want to question is your idea of fighting for what is right vs. what is best for yourself. Assuming that one was fighting for an ideology or a higher cause than oneself, would that make it any better that to only fight for one's benefit?
"The only winner in the War of 1812 was Tchaikovsky." -- Solomon Short
Do you think the winners of WWII are the Allied soldiers that fought and died "for their country"? Or prehaps it is Rosie the Riviter, who worked long hours in the factory and the plant as she eagerly awaits news of her husband. No. The real winners are the ammunition industry chairmen, the steel works board director, the agricultural head. The people who avoided country borders and the venomous tonic known as nationalism made fortunes and when the dust settled, they were the ones on top. Therefore, the nation that does whatever it can to profit rather than taking sides in bloody conflicts is the one that is the smart one and the one that will benefit both itself and its citizens.
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We have buried the putrid corpse of liberty.
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Anyone who is not a socialist before he is 30 has no heart; anyone who is still a socialist after he is 30 has no head.
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #57084
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 06:24
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| Politics: Inner Party |
Country: United States |
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| Mao Zedong wrote: |
| What is a "War Against Humanity"? |
The Nazi regime waged their war with the intention of conquering all of Europe (at the very least), and enslaving or exterminating the conquered European population. In Asia, the Showa regime waged their war with the intention of conquering East Asia, the Pacific, and remaining dominant there, and enslaving or exterminating the conquered people.
| Mao Zedong wrote: |
| During the 1930s, hatred against Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, Jehova Witnesses, Negros, etc. was widespread across the globe. |
I can't think of countries besides the Axis powers during the 30s and 40s who had policies of slavery and extermination.
| Mao Zedong wrote: |
| Especially after the Great Depression, xenophobia reached epic proportions. The only reason why Hitler and the Nazis are branded as supreme evil is because of the complete annihilation of Germany allowed NATO and the USSR to rewrite history, blaming all the wrongs of the time on the Nazis. |
I'd say America has been xenophobic almost throughout its entire history, but it never came to the point where it began enslaving or exterminating other human beings (slavery existed in the 19th century, however Americans never did the enslaving, and eventually blacks were freed but due to racist tendencies, treated as second-class citizens throughout the Union). So you don't think another reason why the Nazis are considered evil is because the Nazis waged wars of aggression, enslaved whole populations, exterminated whole populations, etc? Do you think the Holocaust is rewritten history? Or German planned and carried out programs to exterminate Soviet citizens? Surely, Germany wasn't the only problem, but I seriously doubt that 50 million Europeans would be dead by 1945 if Germany had refrained from becoming an aggressive and hostile state.
| Mao Zedong wrote: |
| A second concept I want to question is your idea of fighting for what is right vs. what is best for yourself. Assuming that one was fighting for an ideology or a higher cause than oneself, would that make it any better that to only fight for one's benefit? |
Let's use a hypothetical scenario: Britain decides to ally with Germany to keep its empire intact instead of allying against Germany. Britain will be able to benefit from this. However, in actual history, Britain did not, and it lost its empire, but out of that came a more democratic world and greater regional sovereignty.
| Mao Zedong wrote: |
"The only winner in the War of 1812 was Tchaikovsky." -- Solomon Short
Do you think the winners of WWII are the Allied soldiers that fought and died "for their country"? Or prehaps it is Rosie the Riviter, who worked long hours in the factory and the plant as she eagerly awaits news of her husband. No. The real winners are the ammunition industry chairmen, the steel works board director, the agricultural head. The people who avoided country borders and the venomous tonic known as nationalism made fortunes and when the dust settled, they were the ones on top. Therefore, the nation that does whatever it can to profit rather than taking sides in bloody conflicts is the one that is the smart one and the one that will benefit both itself and its citizens. |
I wouldn't consider them winners, but rather, opportunists. If you're playing chess, the one who checkmates his opponent is a winner, not the millionaire who bets all his money on the winning chess player. I'd say that the winners of the Second World War were the citizens of every constitutional nation calling themselves members of the Allies. I'd say the winners are the French who rebuilt their nation, the Italian people liberated from fascism, the West Germans who were able to rebuild and throw away Nazism, etc. Those are the winners.
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Azazel
Committee Leader
Post #57085
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 06:37
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
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well first it was private companies that sold this stuff to the Germans not the Swedish people or even necessarily its government, I don't see how trading with Germany violates neutrality, especially since Sweden traded with NATO as well, I don't think we should damn Sweden for the evil people in the iron ore industry.
this being said I don't doubt that the swedes did cave to Nazi demands in many area's, they didn't have the ability to resist or fight Nazi Germany, this said they probably would have fought and made a stand had the Nazi's tried to completely take them over and occupy them, but instead they tried to walk a fine line keeping independence while avoiding annihilation.
if the Swedes had refused to give the ore then the people that would have refused would have been killed and replacements found, the marching of troops through Sweden probably went something like "well were going to march these troops through your lands and you have a choice, these men can either walk quickly and safely or they can shoot everything up and rape the lands."
the choice was not as simple as freedom or slavery it started more like you can keep your independence for the time being as long as you give us iron ore, which was an easy concession to make at the time, this amount of ore increased and Germany demanded other concessions in time but none that the government deemed bad enough to go to war over.
it was a lot easier to be brave in Britain or America or Russia than in comparatively insignificant European countries.
I don't think the swedes should have been punished for what they did during the second world war, after a war like that humanity needed to look to the future if all we focused on was punishing the wrongs of the second world war there wouldn't be very many nations left on the planet....
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"that doesn't make it right, just makes a whole lot of people wrong"-BSG
"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2 = 4 if that is granted, all else follows"-Orwell
Right and wrong are not concrete, rather they are relative to one's nature and nurture and fluctuate between each person.
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carldiesturmer
Minister of Truth
Post #57088
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 07:14
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| Politics: Oligarchical Collectivist |
Country: United States |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Of the four nations listed, the nation which helped the Nazis fight their war against humanity the most was, overwhelmingly, Sweden.
Swedish exports of high quality iron ore to the Nazi regime are as follows:
Sweden: the committed neutral
German imports of Swedish iron ore, 1933-1943
Year - Million mt
1933 - 2.3
1937 - 9.1
1942 - 9.0
1943 - 10.1
"Iron ore imports from Sweden played an important role in the German war economy."
"[Germany imported] about 75 per cent of [Sweden's] total iron ore exports."
"Trade volume of SEK 339 million in the period 1937 to 1939."
"As early as November 1934, Hitler acknowledged the significance of Scandinavian ore by arguing that its absence would make it impossible for Germany to go to war."
"... threat to Germany's rearmament drive if imports of Swedish iron ore were to be reduced."
"The British ... concluded that an end to Swedish supplies would result in a standstill of Germany's production in a matter of months."
"Sweden's early commitment to what amounted to direct support of Germany's war economy was made even firmer by the Wehrmacht's subsequent military victories. Sweden's trade with the western nations, which had been around 70 per cent before September 1939, declined drastically. ... While Germany was overcoming France, Sweden's government was already making major economic concessions to the Third Reich. According to the British press atache at the embassy in Stockholm ... these virtually amounted to 'a direct act of war against Britain'."
Nazi Germany and Neutral Europe during the Second World War
2000 Manchester University Press
By Christian Leitz
Leitz is a Lecturer in History at the University of Auckland and has written seven books, mostly dealing with the Nazi regime. His works are cited throughout Wikipedia. |
hah even America's corporations were involved with the Nazis till the Trading with the Enemy Act was passed.
Oh well better than being a Soviet Satellite state deporting your population to work in the gulag where you get worked to death like a Jew.. 
All water under the bridge now.
_________________
What is a Democratic Socialist?
It is a Communist who is cowardly
enough to call himself what he's not, for fear of backlash on the Semantics. It is about the "Speed" of the "Revolution".
Like Hitler said "get them persuaded and us elected"
Caveat Emptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Socialism
DO NOT USE BIG BROTHER'S LIBERTARIAN POLICIES AND BELIEFS AGAINST HIS HIMSELF AND HIS FORUM |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #57090
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 07:38
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| Politics: Inner Party |
Country: United States |
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| Azazel wrote: |
| well first it was private companies that sold this stuff to the Germans not the Swedish people or even necessarily its government, I don't see how trading with Germany violates neutrality, especially since Sweden traded with NATO as well, I don't think we should damn Sweden for the evil people in the iron ore industry. |
That's true. The German government never actually built anything themselves, it was done by German companies. However, the Swedish government was well aware of the amount of high quality iron ore and what it was going to be used for. Also, the Swedish government itself allowed German troops to use Swedish territory to ship material and troops to Norway and Finland.
Trading with Germany by supplying them high quality iron ore, knowing full well what it was used for (Germany rearmed, so perhaps Sweden was ignorant of where it was going for a few years, but you can't say they were ignorant after Germany started waging wars of aggression thanks in large part to Swedish resources fueling the German war economy and productin thereof. If Sweden gave Germany food and medicine, that wouldn't be a violation of the terms of neutrality accepted by nations at the time. However, Sweden supplied to Germany material to be used by the German war economy. That is a violation of neutrality. Just as Portugal violated its neutrality for a while by supplying the German war economy with amounts of tungsten ore. I mean, you don't think those yearly shipments of 9 to 10.1 million metric tons of high quality Swedish iron ore was used mostly for making kitchen utencils, do you?
Something undebateable is how Sweden directly violated the laws of neutrality by allowing German troops and material to be shipped through Sweden to occupied nations and to frontlines in a war of aggression against Sweden's eastern neighbors.
| Azazel wrote: |
| this being said I don't doubt that the swedes did cave to Nazi demands in many area's, they didn't have the ability to resist or fight Nazi Germany, this said they probably would have fought and made a stand had the Nazi's tried to completely take them over and occupy them, but instead they tried to walk a fine line keeping independence while avoiding annihilation. |
Actually they could've resisted effectively. Keep in mind, Germany was getting, throughout the war period (including the years it engaged in annexation policies), most of its iron ore from Sweden. Had Sweden prevented Germany from getting its iron ore, German war production would have dramatically ceased around 3 months afterwards. Germany was a war economy, and Germany lacks a lot of natural resources. It has iron supplies, but not to the extent of being able to rearm like it did. Many historians I've read in books and on the internet point out this fact, and that Germany embarked on a plan to rearm and conquer Europe, and it needed the resources of neighboring nations to do that. It also needed slave labor, which it got from Poland and Balkan nations, as well as, later on, from the Soviet POWs and civilians. Because Germany had this aggressive policy, it needed a war economy, and its war economy needed foreign resources.
If Sweden had mobilized its people, set up defenses, and sabotaged its iron mines, Germany would probably have invaded, and if the Swedes had concentrated on keeping the Germans from mining the iron ore, (to further delay the Germans the British could have sent many ships and aircraft to blockade Sweden) the German war economy would have collapsed because of its inability to build. The Soviets could have beaten them quicker, and an Allied invasion could have happened sooner. The Swedish people would have suffered, but they could have done their part to stop the Nazis. They didn't, and Europe paid a heavy price.
| Azazel wrote: |
| if the Swedes had refused to give the ore then the people that would have refused would have been killed and replacements found, the marching of troops through Sweden probably went something like "well were going to march these troops through your lands and you have a choice, these men can either walk quickly and safely or they can shoot everything up and rape the lands." |
As I said, sabotaging the mines, and keeping the Germans from mining the ore by concentrating on defending these areas, would have delayed German mining for months and months, and it would have significantly hampered the ability of Germany to wage war. The war could have ended far sooner and with far less casualties, depending on when Sweden would have decided to resist Germany.
| Azazel wrote: |
the choice was not as simple as freedom or slavery it started more like you can keep your independence for the time being as long as you give us iron ore, which was an easy concession to make at the time, this amount of ore increased and Germany demanded other concessions in time but none that the government deemed bad enough to go to war over.
it was a lot easier to be brave in Britain or America or Russia than in comparatively insignificant European countries. |
You know that there were partisans throughout Europe in places you call insignificant? The French resistance helped hamper German occupation, and helped facilitate coordination of Allied movements; the Yugoslav resistance bogged down German troops for years. Not to mention the rest of the Balkans. And I think you're wrong about Russia being an easy place to be brave. The Soviets were deemed subhuman and doomed for slavery or extermination. Partisans faced torture and death. No, it was not easy to be brave in Russia.
| Azazel wrote: |
| I don't think the swedes should have been punished for what they did during the second world war, after a war like that humanity needed to look to the future if all we focused on was punishing the wrongs of the second world war there wouldn't be very many nations left on the planet.... |
You seem to have missed the fact that without Swedish exports to Germany, there might not have been a WWII, or not remotely on the scale it was waged in actual history. The fact remains that Swedish iron ore kept Germany going from 1933 to 1945. I find a problem with that.
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #57091
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 07:54
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The dubious Swedish collaboration with the Third Reich is at least mentioned in every Swedish history book, including schoolbooks, and without embellishment. As a comparison, how often are the atrocities in the Philippines mentioned in American history books?
It should also be mentioned that the Swedish public reacted negatively against the government for it's collaboration with the Third Reich. Thus, the government used censorship to quiet the people, which included confiscation of newspapers and banning of movies. There were also so-called working companies, where communists were interned; they can't really be compared to forced labour camps, but the communists were still detained.
However, Sweden's behaviour during WWII is not what we should be most embarrassed about. It's that we were involved in slave trade and that we had a sterilisation programme. Admittedly, these atrocities are not so well known by the Swedish public, but I doubt the American public is aware of the American sterilisation programme, which inspired the Third Reich, either.
I think the author of the original post really would benefit from learning a little bit more about the world. I won't hold it against her that she hasn't studied on college, but there's no excuse for lacking general education, really.
P.S. What's the purpose of this thread? Every decent intellectual is already aware of these facts and they are easy to access on Wikipedia and elsewhere. Surely, the purpose of this forum can't be to present basic facts; that's what elementary school is for. |
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carldiesturmer
Minister of Truth
Post #57093
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 09:08
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| Politics: Oligarchical Collectivist |
Country: United States |
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| Meph for NS Menu:meph's self-victimization |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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it is bait, you see RevRight.com gets no action in what attention-replies are concerned, next course of action for Meph, raise the flag and see who salutes it; stick some baits at NS and see who swallows it, may be he can get IO annoyed and then blame him for getting mad and cajoled into another flamewar. Neat eh?
It has been done many times before, it is the game of Satanist forum gaming, meph admitted to it himself back in December 2007.
That goes to show meph peaked long time ago.
_________________
What is a Democratic Socialist?
It is a Communist who is cowardly
enough to call himself what he's not, for fear of backlash on the Semantics. It is about the "Speed" of the "Revolution".
Like Hitler said "get them persuaded and us elected"
Caveat Emptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Socialism
DO NOT USE BIG BROTHER'S LIBERTARIAN POLICIES AND BELIEFS AGAINST HIS HIMSELF AND HIS FORUM |
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The-Eurasian-youth
Committee Member
Post #57106
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Posted: Wed 2008-07-16 16:21
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| Politics: Ignorant Prole |
Country: Eurasian Dynasty |
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| Irony |
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Sweden appears to have been more of a help to Hitler than Italy, which actively undermined the Holocaust and attacked Fascist Greece in a attempt to rival Germany in preparation for a post-war confrontation with Hitler, not to mention the useless aristocratic Italian Generals!
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FASICSM IS THOUGHTCRIME!
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #57109
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Posted: Thu 2008-07-17 00:56
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| Politics: Atheist |
Country: United States |
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| Re: Irony |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| The-Eurasian-youth wrote: |
| Sweden appears to have been more of a help to Hitler than Italy, which actively undermined the Holocaust and attacked Fascist Greece in a attempt to rival Germany in preparation for a post-war confrontation with Hitler, not to mention the useless aristocratic Italian Generals! |
Interesting analogy, I hadn't thought of it like that, but it's obviously true. Italy provided marginal assistance to the Nazi regime's plans for Europe and the rest of the world. Italy lacked well-trained troops, adequate supplies of resouces and war material. You're absolutely right about Italy's confrontational attitude; early in the war, Italy did in its own way attempt to rival Hitler, but clearly the Italian State was far inferior to the German one.
On the other hand, it's documented fact (as evidenced in this thread) that had Sweden stayed neutral and resisted the Germans, WWII could have ended far, far sooner than it did, and many, many millions of lives could have been saved. But Sweden collaborated, helped the Germans wage wars of extermination and slavery and conquest, and I personally won't forget that.
What I don't understand is why the British didn't keep trying to sabotage the iron mines or the export ships. I know they tried at least once, in a very serious way, but failed to stop the Swedes from giving Germany its means to murder the neighbors of Sweden. Personally, had I been in the British government during the war period, I'd have to offer plans to stop the iron exports. Clearly if Germany were starved of Swedish iron ore, it would have lacked the ability to actually wage war.
Eurasian, you're British, do you happen to know if the British decided to ignore the iron shipments on purpose or otherwise? There seems to be insufficient data on why the Allies didn't focus on this major resource for Germany, a resource so important it could have ended the war.
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Ingsoc Officer
Minister of Truth
Post #57110
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Posted: Thu 2008-07-17 02:15
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I'd like to remind the original poster that this isn't a highschool classroom. She must learn to do basic research and not simplify topics. Otherwise, she risks being regarded as intellectually immature.
Allied plans to invade Norway and Sweden: Plan R 4
Sweden collaborated with both sides: Swedish neutrality during World War II
It took one (1) day for the Third Reich to invade and get full control of Denmark; it's an outstanding record in military history actually. Norway, on the other hand, was the conquered country which withstood a German invasion for the longest time before succumbing; Oslo and other important cities were captured the first day, and ports important for the ore export, most notably Narvik, were captured the next day; the resistance in Southern Norway ended 20 days later, and Norway formally capitulated 40 days after that. There have been estimates that it would have taken Germany at the very most one month to conquer Sweden, considering that Sweden is more difficult to defend; the ore industry could probably have been conquered in a week. If this would have happened, Germany could have exploited the Swedish ore supplies more efficiently with foreign slave labour to the very end of the war.
It seems that the original poster hasn't thought this through really, and that she only relies on highschool history books.
Finally, isn't it a little bit childish of her to implicitely call Sweden a country of murderers just because she doesn't like one Swede? It seems that the original poster needs to mature in more than one way. |
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carldiesturmer
Minister of Truth
Post #57113
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Posted: Thu 2008-07-17 07:37
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| Politics: Oligarchical Collectivist |
Country: United States |
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| Re: Irony, meph the ns clown |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| The-Eurasian-youth wrote: |
| Sweden appears to have been more of a help to Hitler than Italy, which actively undermined the Holocaust and attacked Fascist Greece in a attempt to rival Germany in preparation for a post-war confrontation with Hitler, not to mention the useless aristocratic Italian Generals! |
Interesting analogy, I hadn't thought of it like that, but it's obviously true. Italy provided marginal assistance to the Nazi regime's plans for Europe and the rest of the world. Italy lacked well-trained troops, adequate supplies of resouces and war material. You're absolutely right about Italy's confrontational attitude; early in the war, Italy did in its own way attempt to rival Hitler, but clearly the Italian State was far inferior to the German one.
On the other hand, it's documented fact (as evidenced in this thread) that had Sweden stayed neutral and resisted the Germans, WWII could have ended far, far sooner than it did, and many, many millions of lives could have been saved. But Sweden collaborated, helped the Germans wage wars of extermination and slavery and conquest, and I personally won't forget that.
What I don't understand is why the British didn't keep trying to sabotage the iron mines or the export ships. I know they tried at least once, in a very serious way, but failed to stop the Swedes from giving Germany its means to murder the neighbors of Sweden. Personally, had I been in the British government during the war period, I'd have to offer plans to stop the iron exports. Clearly if Germany were starved of Swedish iron ore, it would have lacked the ability to actually wage war.
Eurasian, you're British, do you happen to know if the British decided to ignore the iron shipments on purpose or otherwise? There seems to be insufficient data on why the Allies didn't focus on this major resource for Germany, a resource so important it could have ended the war. |
oh this is so predictable meph, tell me you think you can something out of eurasian youth.
Too young even for Aleks's standards.
_________________
What is a Democratic Socialist?
It is a Communist who is cowardly
enough to call himself what he's not, for fear of backlash on the Semantics. It is about the "Speed" of the "Revolution".
Like Hitler said "get them persuaded and us elected"
Caveat Emptor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Socialism
DO NOT USE BIG BROTHER'S LIBERTARIAN POLICIES AND BELIEFS AGAINST HIS HIMSELF AND HIS FORUM |
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