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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #56402
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Tue 2008-06-03 03:37
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| Politics: Inner Party |
Country: United States |
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| China's Museum on Tibet |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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Well China apparently opened a museum exhibit, an apparently large one considering thousands of people per day visit it, in Beijing dedicated to the "truth" about Tibet: that it was a dark tyrannical society ruled by a Dalai Lama who demanded human heads, blood, and human skin for his birthday as presents, "liberated" in 1959 by Chinese troops because Tibet, since the 13th century, apparently was an "inalienable" part of China due to the Yuan Dynasty. The exhibit does skip the whole history between 1959 and about 1989, which included the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s in which at least 500,000 Tibetans are said to have been killed, and 1989 when Lhasa was placed under martial law.
It's hard to tell who is telling the truth. I have doubts about Chinese government stories of people in Old Tibet having their eyes gouged out, and parts of their bodies cut off for small infractions of the law (I haven't heard of any Tibetans with missing eyes speaking out against Old Tibet at any time), and I probably have doubts about the Dalai Lama demanding human sacrifices, but I probably do have doubts that Tibet lacked slavery (which still persists in Africa and places around the world to this day), was a free society, or wasn't absolute, which to my knowledge it was absolute, though claimed benevolent.
But it's hard to tell the truth in this case; Tibetan documents aren't readily available in English, and I doubt any really exist prior to the Chinese invasion anymore, so we can't know for certain if the Tibetans had eliminated slavery, torture, and other practices we might consider inhumane. While the Dalai Lama might have been benevolent, not every Tibetan is trained to be the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, and thus can't be guaranteed to never have harmed others in an official capacity. But, the obvious hypocrisy of this whole case is the Chinese obviously tortured and killed people in Tibet during Mao and his Red Guard's reign of terror during the Cultural Revolution, a lot of people, and the Chinese still torture and kill people. I believe the Chinese statistically kill more people through execution by number than Saudi Arabia kills by proportion, which makes the Chinese government as bad as the evil Dalai Lama who is said to have demanded human sacrifices; if executions aren't akin to human sacrifice, then spank my ass and call me Shirley.
And all in obvious response to the worldwide and Tibetan protests about Tibet's treatment by China.
| From http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BBB8CDA-EB24-45BE-9C37-404A360258DD.htm |
Tibet seen through Chinese eyes
By Dinah Gardner in Beijing, China
The exhibition paints a dark picture of life in Tibet before Chinese 'liberation'
Get in trouble with the law in old Tibet and expect to have your eyes gouged out, your tendons snipped, or your ears, feet or hands cut off.
For his birthday, the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, would demand a set of human intestines, two human heads, blood and a human skin as gifts.
So says a new exhibition, "Tibet of China: Past and Present", currently on show in Beijing's Cultural Palace of Minorities, a 10-minute walk from Tiananmen Square.
The exhibition pulls few punches with its message - if China had not "peacefully liberated" Tibet in 1959, it would still be a medieval society and the Dalai Lama would still be asking for those heads and skins.
The opening of the exhibition is timely, coming in the wake of recent deadly unrest in Tibetan communities against Chinese rule.
Exile groups say the unrest was an outpouring of despair sparked by decades of religious persecution and human rights violations.
China blames the Dalai Lama who fled to across the Himalayas to India in 1959 for orchestrating the riots, a charge he firmly denies.
The exhibition makes no mention of the recent riots although one display, added a few days after the show opened, proudly documents China's Everest ascent with the Olympic Torch on May 8.
Instead the exhibition sticks rigidly to the official line of China's benevolent influence on the Himalayan region, contrasting it with what the exhibition describes as the "savage and dark feudal serfdom" of pre-1959 Tibet.
Captions are in Chinese and polished English, but no Tibetan. Nothing is dated.
One portion of the collection, which deals with post-Liberation Tibet, shows only photos of happy Tibetans using mobile phones, opening fridges stacked with yak cheese and Lhasa beer, and chomping into water melons.
Before and after posters contrast the "old Tibet" of starving children lying in the gutter, slaves living next to a latrine, peasants stumbling about on foot, with "new Tibet" showing rosy-cheeked children in front of swanky villas, smiley old Tibetan ladies riding a train and a Tibetan family tucking into a feast.
Under the Chinese, Tibetan industry has flourished, the exhibition proudly proclaims, backing its position with photos of an "environmentally-friendly" cement factory, a stack of brightly-coloured Tibetan medicine, a box of Potala-brand incense, and a food mixer, its dials marked in Tibetan script.
Identity
In an apparent effort to deflect criticism that Chinese rule as crushed Tibetan culture, much of the collection purports to show Chinese efforts at preserving Tibetan identity.
Thousands of books, it says, have been translated into local script, Tibetan singer Tseten Drolma is shown performing on Chinese television while the state-run Tibet Daily newspaper, famous for its fierce editorials lambasting the Dalai Lama, is also published in Tibetan.
A photo of children studying Tibetan script is captioned "ethnic Tibetans make good learners".
But behind the smiles, there are several glaring omissions.
The exhibition jumps from 1959 to modern-day Tibet, skipping the horrors of the decade-long Cultural Revolution which began in 1966.
Conservative estimates put the number of Tibetans who died from hunger or persecution during this period at 500,000.
An exhibition guide, a young Chinese girl dressed in a traditional Tibetan dress looked uncomfortable when asked whether there was a display on the Cultural Revolution.
"There should be one here, but I don't know where it is," she said.
No mention is made of the Dalai Lama after he fled in 1959 nor the region's recent history of anti-Chinese uprisings the most serious in 1989 when Lhasa was placed under martial law.
Most Chinese visitors to the exhibition seem unperturbed by these omissions, instead focusing much of their attention on the collection of Tibetan torture implements.
Shocked
One young Chinese visitor in his mid-twenties who would not give his name said he was shocked by the displays showing the barbarity of old Tibet.
"Even though in history many countries had this kind of cruel system, Tibet is different because they still did things like this until 1959," he said.
He saw no conflict with the idea that Tibet's "dark" feudalism went on when the region was supposed to be an inalienable part of China.
"China ruled Tibet a bit like England ruled India," he said. "They only dealt with the top officials like the Dalai Lama so they didn't know what was going on."
The exhibition, which is scheduled to run until late July, has attracted thousands of Chinese visitors every day from families with infants to students to the elderly.
The 11th Panchen Lama a Tibetan spiritual leader chosen by Beijing and not recognised by many Tibetans was given a tour in its first week.
Battalions of young officers from the paramilitary police are regularly shepherded around the show and tight security is in place to ensure the exhibition does not attract the wrong kind of attention.
While the exhibition is free visitors need to bring their passports or identification cards and must pass through a security scanner to gain entrance.
'Special rule'
In its first week, Chinese reporters milled about the exhibits pouncing on western visitors hoping to get a pro-Beijing quote. Staff manning a comment book would not allow visitors to look back at previous entries.
"I'm sorry this is a rule," said one museum worker, who smiled apologetically. "A special rule for this exhibition."
The collection also includes pieces clearly selected to shore up the argument that Tibet has been an inalienable part of China since the time of the Yuan Dynasty in the 13th century.
In addition to official seals and edicts from Beijing to Lhasa, there are also gifts of silverware, paintings and armour exchanged between both sides.
But perhaps the most striking aspect comes in a small display tucked away in the middle of the collection.
"Before the democratic reform in 1959
the broad masses of serfs and slaves enjoyed no democracy, freedom and human rights while the three estate holders
made use of the court, prisons, army and law to oppress, exploit and enslave the serfs and slaves," the caption reads.
Change the dates, and you have a fair summary of the allegations Tibetans in exile and some in China of abuse they say they suffer today. |
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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Mao Zedong
Committee Leader
Post #56466
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 664
Total Words: 67,197
Average words per post: 101.2
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Posted: Sat 2008-06-07 23:22
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| Politics: Meritocratist |
Country: American Empire |
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| Re: China's Museum on Tibet |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Well China apparently opened a museum exhibit, an apparently large one considering thousands of people per day visit it, in Beijing dedicated to the "truth" about Tibet: that it was a dark tyrannical society ruled by a Dalai Lama who demanded human heads, blood, and human skin for his birthday as presents, "liberated" in 1959 by Chinese troops because Tibet, since the 13th century, apparently was an "inalienable" part of China due to the Yuan Dynasty. The exhibit does skip the whole history between 1959 and about 1989, which included the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s in which at least 500,000 Tibetans are said to have been killed, and 1989 when Lhasa was placed under martial law.
It's hard to tell who is telling the truth. I have doubts about Chinese government stories of people in Old Tibet having their eyes gouged out, and parts of their bodies cut off for small infractions of the law (I haven't heard of any Tibetans with missing eyes speaking out against Old Tibet at any time), and I probably have doubts about the Dalai Lama demanding human sacrifices, but I probably do have doubts that Tibet lacked slavery (which still persists in Africa and places around the world to this day), was a free society, or wasn't absolute, which to my knowledge it was absolute, though claimed benevolent.
But it's hard to tell the truth in this case; Tibetan documents aren't readily available in English, and I doubt any really exist prior to the Chinese invasion anymore, so we can't know for certain if the Tibetans had eliminated slavery, torture, and other practices we might consider inhumane. While the Dalai Lama might have been benevolent, not every Tibetan is trained to be the spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism, and thus can't be guaranteed to never have harmed others in an official capacity. But, the obvious hypocrisy of this whole case is the Chinese obviously tortured and killed people in Tibet during Mao and his Red Guard's reign of terror during the Cultural Revolution, a lot of people, and the Chinese still torture and kill people. I believe the Chinese statistically kill more people through execution by number than Saudi Arabia kills by proportion, which makes the Chinese government as bad as the evil Dalai Lama who is said to have demanded human sacrifices; if executions aren't akin to human sacrifice, then spank my ass and call me Shirley.
And all in obvious response to the worldwide and Tibetan protests about Tibet's treatment by China.
| From http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BBB8CDA-EB24-45BE-9C37-404A360258DD.htm |
Tibet seen through Chinese eyes
By Dinah Gardner in Beijing, China
The exhibition paints a dark picture of life in Tibet before Chinese 'liberation'
Get in trouble with the law in old Tibet and expect to have your eyes gouged out, your tendons snipped, or your ears, feet or hands cut off.
For his birthday, the Dalai Lama, Tibet's spiritual leader, would demand a set of human intestines, two human heads, blood and a human skin as gifts.
So says a new exhibition, "Tibet of China: Past and Present", currently on show in Beijing's Cultural Palace of Minorities, a 10-minute walk from Tiananmen Square.
The exhibition pulls few punches with its message - if China had not "peacefully liberated" Tibet in 1959, it would still be a medieval society and the Dalai Lama would still be asking for those heads and skins.
The opening of the exhibition is timely, coming in the wake of recent deadly unrest in Tibetan communities against Chinese rule.
Exile groups say the unrest was an outpouring of despair sparked by decades of religious persecution and human rights violations.
China blames the Dalai Lama who fled to across the Himalayas to India in 1959 for orchestrating the riots, a charge he firmly denies.
The exhibition makes no mention of the recent riots although one display, added a few days after the show opened, proudly documents China's Everest ascent with the Olympic Torch on May 8.
Instead the exhibition sticks rigidly to the official line of China's benevolent influence on the Himalayan region, contrasting it with what the exhibition describes as the "savage and dark feudal serfdom" of pre-1959 Tibet.
Captions are in Chinese and polished English, but no Tibetan. Nothing is dated.
One portion of the collection, which deals with post-Liberation Tibet, shows only photos of happy Tibetans using mobile phones, opening fridges stacked with yak cheese and Lhasa beer, and chomping into water melons.
Before and after posters contrast the "old Tibet" of starving children lying in the gutter, slaves living next to a latrine, peasants stumbling about on foot, with "new Tibet" showing rosy-cheeked children in front of swanky villas, smiley old Tibetan ladies riding a train and a Tibetan family tucking into a feast.
Under the Chinese, Tibetan industry has flourished, the exhibition proudly proclaims, backing its position with photos of an "environmentally-friendly" cement factory, a stack of brightly-coloured Tibetan medicine, a box of Potala-brand incense, and a food mixer, its dials marked in Tibetan script.
Identity
In an apparent effort to deflect criticism that Chinese rule as crushed Tibetan culture, much of the collection purports to show Chinese efforts at preserving Tibetan identity.
Thousands of books, it says, have been translated into local script, Tibetan singer Tseten Drolma is shown performing on Chinese television while the state-run Tibet Daily newspaper, famous for its fierce editorials lambasting the Dalai Lama, is also published in Tibetan.
A photo of children studying Tibetan script is captioned "ethnic Tibetans make good learners".
But behind the smiles, there are several glaring omissions.
The exhibition jumps from 1959 to modern-day Tibet, skipping the horrors of the decade-long Cultural Revolution which began in 1966.
Conservative estimates put the number of Tibetans who died from hunger or persecution during this period at 500,000.
An exhibition guide, a young Chinese girl dressed in a traditional Tibetan dress looked uncomfortable when asked whether there was a display on the Cultural Revolution.
"There should be one here, but I don't know where it is," she said.
No mention is made of the Dalai Lama after he fled in 1959 nor the region's recent history of anti-Chinese uprisings the most serious in 1989 when Lhasa was placed under martial law.
Most Chinese visitors to the exhibition seem unperturbed by these omissions, instead focusing much of their attention on the collection of Tibetan torture implements.
Shocked
One young Chinese visitor in his mid-twenties who would not give his name said he was shocked by the displays showing the barbarity of old Tibet.
"Even though in history many countries had this kind of cruel system, Tibet is different because they still did things like this until 1959," he said.
He saw no conflict with the idea that Tibet's "dark" feudalism went on when the region was supposed to be an inalienable part of China.
"China ruled Tibet a bit like England ruled India," he said. "They only dealt with the top officials like the Dalai Lama so they didn't know what was going on."
The exhibition, which is scheduled to run until late July, has attracted thousands of Chinese visitors every day from families with infants to students to the elderly.
The 11th Panchen Lama a Tibetan spiritual leader chosen by Beijing and not recognised by many Tibetans was given a tour in its first week.
Battalions of young officers from the paramilitary police are regularly shepherded around the show and tight security is in place to ensure the exhibition does not attract the wrong kind of attention.
While the exhibition is free visitors need to bring their passports or identification cards and must pass through a security scanner to gain entrance.
'Special rule'
In its first week, Chinese reporters milled about the exhibits pouncing on western visitors hoping to get a pro-Beijing quote. Staff manning a comment book would not allow visitors to look back at previous entries.
"I'm sorry this is a rule," said one museum worker, who smiled apologetically. "A special rule for this exhibition."
The collection also includes pieces clearly selected to shore up the argument that Tibet has been an inalienable part of China since the time of the Yuan Dynasty in the 13th century.
In addition to official seals and edicts from Beijing to Lhasa, there are also gifts of silverware, paintings and armour exchanged between both sides.
But perhaps the most striking aspect comes in a small display tucked away in the middle of the collection.
"Before the democratic reform in 1959
the broad masses of serfs and slaves enjoyed no democracy, freedom and human rights while the three estate holders
made use of the court, prisons, army and law to oppress, exploit and enslave the serfs and slaves," the caption reads.
Change the dates, and you have a fair summary of the allegations Tibetans in exile and some in China of abuse they say they suffer today. |
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While I am sure that the CCP likes to exaggerate like any other country would, there is no doubt that there is truth in their argument. The current free tibet movement is mainly associated with westerners who have little understanding of China or Tibet and are mere puppets of those that want the downfall of China (ie foreign nations, former influencial Chinese that have lost power). In Tibet, there are a group of monks who used to rule but have had their wealth and power stripped away by the Reds. They are the ones who are rioting and protesting. The vast majority of Tibet's population is content with the way things are run there. If any of you guys have facebook, you should check this page out http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=9356526887. It has some pretty interesting stuff[/url]
_________________
We have buried the putrid corpse of liberty.
-Benito Mussolini
Anyone who is not a socialist before he is 30 has no heart; anyone who is still a socialist after he is 30 has no head.
-European Proverb |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #56468
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Total Words: 455
Average words per post: 455
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Posted: Sun 2008-06-08 02:07
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| Politics: Inner Party |
Country: United States |
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| Re: China's Museum on Tibet |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mao Zedong wrote: |
| While I am sure that the CCP likes to exaggerate like any other country would, there is no doubt that there is truth in their argument. The current free tibet movement is mainly associated with westerners who have little understanding of China or Tibet and are mere puppets of those that want the downfall of China (ie foreign nations, former influencial Chinese that have lost power). In Tibet, there are a group of monks who used to rule but have had their wealth and power stripped away by the Reds. They are the ones who are rioting and protesting. The vast majority of Tibet's population is content with the way things are run there. If any of you guys have facebook, you should check this page out http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=9356526887. It has some pretty interesting stuff |
Of course there's truth to an argument, but truth like the Vorlons say, is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth. Now that you mention it (being there's only so many Tibetans; how could they be at every protest) I do think it's likely that Free Tibet is a movement of largely non-Tibetans; however, it's probably not mainly Western in nature considering China does have bad relations with other nations like India, for example, which would feel safer with a Tibetan buffer zone than we would directly be, and India isn't quite a Western nation.
I'd say that the ones rioting and protesting, due to demographics, are more likely mostly non-Tibetans who for some reason find a problem with the way the Chinese killed more people in Tibet than the Arabs killed in Darfur.
The statement that the vast majority of Tibet is content is something that the Chinese claim in their museum, and is probably, due to the obvious fact a people ravaged by invasion, domination, and a decade-long period of torture and murder by foreigners would probably not be completely content, at least partly false. Some Tibetans might be okay with everything, but I'd say it's likely many aren't.
So far you've made three claims as fact:
That Free Tibet is mainly Western, is run by Western agendists, and mainly doesn't understand Tibetan history and Chinese-Tibetan relations.
That the ones who are protesting are Tibetan monks.
The vast majority of Tibet's population is content under Chinese rule.
---
Could you provide any evidence for these claims?
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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