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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #31905
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Fri 2006-08-25 06:04
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| Politics: Satanist |
Country: Ninth Plane of Hell |
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| The Theory and Practice of Neo-Bolshevism |
Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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I'm going to write a short dissertation on Eurasia based on the layout of OOTF's disseration on Eastasia. It seems to be a simpler way of doing things than to just discuss it in essay format.
OOTF, if you feel my format completely plagarizes you, I then apologize. You simply laid out in very perfect terms the way to convey a philosophy of 1984's superpowers.
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THE FORMATION OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF NEO-BOLSHEVISM
After the Second World War, Russia in its form prior to the formation of Eurasia effectively annexed to its own control the nations of Eastern Europe east of the so-called "Iron Curtain" into an Eastern Bloc. This Eastern Bloc became hand-in-hand with the Russian Communist Party so much that Communism was installed in each nation as its own "democratic" will of the populace. On the other side, the West enjoyed many more freedoms than did their Eastern counterparts.
Following the death of Stalin in 1953, a short power struggle ensued with Malenkov the new General Secretary of the Communist Party of Russia. His lesser, Khrushchev, bitter over his loss to gain great power, decided to take an initiative and claim glory for himself, in a possible bid for his lost seat. Having spent the rest of 1954 secretly organizing units still loyal to him as a result of his personal combat in the Second World War to conduct "drills" near the West German border, he ordered an attack across the West German border. His forces suffered substantial losses and were forced to retreat, causing a chain reaction in the Russian lines. Believing the Westerners were the aggressors and not the other way around, Russian forces invaded West Germany. Malenkov, being informed by Khrushchev that the West attacked first, ordered a nuclear strike upon the Western nations, including the continental United States, as a pre-emtive strike. This failed, as a result of faulty intelligence and inefficiency in orders, leaving most American nuclear weapons virtually unscathed. The West launched a counter-attack, firm in the belief that the Russians had attacked first, which was correct. A short nuclear war ensued, leaving continental Europe, Britain, and North America ravaged by nuclear bombs and deadly fall-out.
In the aftermath of the Nuclear War of 1954, an unsigned and unofficial truce came effectively into being banning the use of nuclear weapons, or else the ruling parties of both great Blocs would suffer ultimate defeat to no one's benefit. Western troops evacuated the continent and escaped into Britain while Russian forces took over the ravaged cities of continental Europe. In Moscow, Khrushchev ordered the assassination of Malenkov, elevating himself to General Secretary as a result of his personal command of forces during the Nuclear War, giving him the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, and a serious war hero contender amongst the greatest Russian war heroes of his time. Proclaiming a New Bolshevik programme, Khrushchev re-organized the Communist Parties across all of Eurasia to accept and dispense the new Eurasian ideology.
Disseminating propaganda across Europe was no hard task; the populace, ravaged by the Second World War as a recent event, and by the Nuclear War, accepted Eurasian propaganda that the War was started by the West. In the West, at the same time, the War caused major rethinking in how society needed to be formed in order to prevent another war of such magnitude, and Oceania became to take shape.
With many small and gratutious-sized nations of Europe neutral during the War, Eurasian forces whittled down their independence one nation after another. Relocating the population from city to city instilled a fear and compliance towards their new masters. Given the choice of either being killed, or accepting the invasion as a matter of survival, most gave in and submitted to Eurasian authority. Additionally, with the formation of Oceania coming into being before the end of the 1950s, and the beginnings of an alliance of East Asian nations, submission to the Neo-Bolshevik Party of Eurasia was firmly linked with survival. It was painted as the will of the people.
The flag of Eurasia was based upon the old Soviet "hammer and sickle", with two stars representing the two continents which Eurasia stretched across, and the color green to represent natural victory.
Eurasia organized itself along nationalistic lines prior to the War in order to control the populations much more easily. With their infrastructure destroyed in the aftermath of the atom bombs and troop ravagings, national "republics" were set up with Russian Republic overseers to build their republics again. The nationalism inherent in each republic was replaced with an overall Eurasian nationalistic pride; pride in being one of the largest nations on Earth, and pride in having successfully won the Atomic War. The last incident was quite literally an endless pool of patriotism which could be counted upon to inspire workers to work harder to win a new war, just as they had won the previous War.
Under the leadership of Glorious Comrade Khrushchev, Eurasia rebuilt enough infrastructure to sustain itself on a bare minimum. With transportation systems rebuilt to a bare minimum, whole populations were deported and re-arranged throughout each Republic to assist in an Eurasian programme of sowing complete dependency on the State. All Jews found themselves deported to the Jewish Republic in the Far-east while former nations such as Spain and Portugal were lumped together into an Iberian Republic. The currency of each Republic was set to rubles, and in face of Russianization, each Republic was faced with a re-organized school system teaching children Russian instead of their native languages. Adults were also forced to participate in re-education centers designed to teach them Russian. Yet, the common denominator in each Republic was that each citizen raised the same flag: the flag of the Neo-Bolshevik Party.
As of 1984, with its gulags, Eurasia has the most extensive prison system in the world. Sent to the gulags for even minor infractions of the law, almost one-quarter of the entire Eurasian population is confined within gulags stretching from both sides of Siberia. While political criminals are simply given show trials and executed, regular criminals are relegated into the gulags. From there, there is no escape, and no release. It's a life-sentence. In this sense, a virtual slave class exists within the gulags which is forced to produce war material and paraphernalia. With male and females not being separated, children are born into the gulags, and since no one leaves the gulags, despite their innocence, the slaves perpetuate themselves with slave children.
However, life was not without end, and Khrushchev eventually died during 1971 of natural causes, in the Kremlin. His figure lives on as an object of worship in the form of an ikon for the millions of Neo-Bolshevik adherents across all of Eurasia's great Republics.
THE PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICE OF NEO-BOLSHEVISM
1. национализма (Nationalism)
"Without struggle, there can be no victory, and without victory, our struggle would have failed." - Nikita Khrushchev
In the aftermath of the Atomic War, and in the resulting chaos and rampant destruction of European civilization and Eurasian occupation of continental Europe, a method of unity and control had to be enabled in order to keep the very fabric of continental European society afloat and alive. Substituting Neo-Bolshevik patriotism for the nationalism inherent in each nation overrun by Eurasian forces, a new form of pan-European-Asian nationalism was born.
Extolling the virtues of community and of iconatry, as well as being a victorious nation in the Atomic War, were used as an endless pool from which to draw patriotism at the appropriate times by the ruling Neo-Bolshevik Party of Eurasia. With "spontaneous" demonstrations showing pride for Eurasia and for the Glorious Comrades dead in honorable combat (Khrushchev always died in combat, comrade.), nationalism was instilled into every citizen across Eurasia in the form of chills down one's spine, and a burning in one's heart for the glorious victory over Oceania during the War. Eurasia effectively became a nation of mindless drones, raising the same flag, chanting the same slogans, eating the same meals, and marching to the same beat.
2. иконизма (Iconatry)
"Praise your fellow Glorious Comrades, for their deaths serve as a reminder that we all must make sacrifices for the noble cause!" - Nikita Khrushchev
As Glorious Comrade Khrushchev knew, nationalism alone could not instill unity throughout Eurasia by itself. A new system of worship and beliefs had to be created, and therein lies the ideology of iconatry. Once religious in nature, it now occupies the nature of political religion.
Elevating himself to Glorious Comrade (a position only held by Glorious Comrades Lenin and Stalin), Khrushchev elevated himself effectively to god-hood. The ownership of ikons being a requirement under unspoken penalty of death, each community home has ikons displayed in almost every room. In the factories, in the homes, in the gulags, and even in the filthy rest-rooms, the faces of Lenin, Stalin, Malenkov, and Khrushchev benevolently smile down upon the average cold, malnourished, and thread-bare citizen of Eurasia.
Although Khrushchev had Malenkov killed whilst making it look like a death by natural causes, he had no real choice but to elevate Malenkov also to the title of Glorious Comrade.
After the death of Khrushchev, it was announced that only an unanimous vote by the Party members could make a new General Secretary a Glorious Comrade. Each General Secretary has been unanimously voted each time.
With Russian leaders prominently displayed in every home as a virtual god, the rule of the Party was ensured, and the Nationalistic tendences of the people of Eurasia were fed. Elevated to virtual god-hood, the Glorious Comrades resided in the heart of each citizen.
3. сообщестивизма (Communalism)
"Be happy you have a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, and plentiful potatoes to eat!" - Nikita Khrushchev
Designed to create dependency, in fact, complete dependency upon the State via mass-deportations and constant forced moves from city to city, or Republic to Republic, the ideology of communalism is one of the great ideologies of the Neo-Bolshevik Party.
Every worker shares a house with other workers. Every worker shares the same clothes, the same boots, even the same goods. With their clothes rotated around to instill a sense of community pride and feeling, many workers often go to work barefoot, unable to wear the boot size provided by the previous worker. Every worker shares a bed, and shares the same mates. There are no marriages or relationships between a man and woman anymore. Several women are assigned to one male, and several males are assigned to one female. Such is the way of things.
Each year, workers are given new move orders. Some are moved to different community homes nearby in the same city, while others are ordered to move to entirely different cities in the same Republic, or sometimes entirely new Republics throughout Eurasia. The only constant is the State, the eternal provider and keeper of sanity.
Workers are not the only class in Eurasia, of course. The social structure consists of four classes: Glorious-Comrades, Party members, workers, and slaves. Glorious-Comrades fill the highest echelon in Eurasian society, and are considered virtual gods. They are worshipped, praised, and their lives are always somewhat murky as the personal events are being constantly upgraded to further mythologize their past. Party members are the bureaucrats of society, running Eurasia, organizing events, and devising new methods of killing the enemy in their eternal war, and much like the Party of Oceania, the Party of Eurasia is also not hereditary. Workers are the proletariat, they form the brute force class of Eurasia, doing all the heavy, manual physical labor in society. Slaves are either criminals sentenced to gulags, or children born of gulag parents. They do dirty work, such as build explosives and other dangerous material to cut down on human cost.
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Yippykiaye motherfucker.
Last edited by Mephistopheles on Fri 2006-08-25 21:27; edited 8 times in total |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #31914
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #31915
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Fri 2006-08-25 07:48
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| Politics: Satanist |
Country: Ninth Plane of Hell |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| N. I. Kirov wrote: |
Enlightening and sobering, I daresay. A very good and concise overview of the entire program.
In the entire schema of Novobolshevizma, beginning to end, its inevitable 'product' was exacerbated by the power struggle, and it would have made sense for this outcome to happen because of the times afterward, of mistrust and of economical inequality.
As far as the three points of Neobolshevism are concerned they are deft at conveying the essence and methods of the nomenklatura, the new and powerful order that by small steps comes to control Eurasia.
Plus, good quotes. I didn't want to forget that.
You have done great work. Continue to do so, comrade. |
Thank you for your kind words. You've really given my life purpose and meaning. Lol, sorry for the sarcasm. You made some nice comments and I praise you, citizen.
Glad you liked the quotes, I liked them too. =)
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utkiyaznik
Junior Spy
Post #31921
Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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Posted: Fri 2006-08-25 17:14
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| Politics: There is no spoon |
Country: Oceania |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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Brilliance. Sheer brilliance. I'll re-work the map a bit when I've got the time...
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utkiyaznik
Junior Spy
Post #32066
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Posted: Sat 2006-09-02 04:45
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| Politics: There is no spoon |
Country: Oceania |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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Well Mephistopheles, I appreciate your kind words as well (I like the "kind words" thing in this forum and I'm led to understand that you're at least partly responsible).
Anyway, your choice of Khrushchev as the leader isinteresting. While most folk recognize him as the one who gave the "Secret Speech" denouncing Stalin at the 20th Party Congress which preceeded the "Thaw" wheren Gorbachev was educated, anyone who has more than a superficial knowledge of Soviet history will recognize "Little Nikita" as the perfect candidate, however, he was also a bumpkin.
For a bit of color, "Iron" Lazar Kaganovich, who was Khrushchev's mentor under Stalin and didn't die until 1991, would have been a perfect "Man behind the curtain." Interestingly enough, Kaganovich is credited with inventing Stalinism, but Stalin himself rejected Kaganovich's idea of renaming Moscow to Stalinodar.
Finally, I reccommend Stalin's deification within the "United Peoples' Soviet Socialist Republics of Eurasia (UPSSRE).
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #32070
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Sat 2006-09-02 18:04
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| Politics: Satanist |
Country: Ninth Plane of Hell |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Well Mephistopheles, I appreciate your kind words as well (I like the "kind words" thing in this forum and I'm led to understand that you're at least partly responsible). |
=O What makes you think I started a "kind words" fad here in the forum?
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Anyway, your choice of Khrushchev as the leader isinteresting. While most folk recognize him as the one who gave the "Secret Speech" denouncing Stalin at the 20th Party Congress which preceeded the "Thaw" wheren Gorbachev was educated, anyone who has more than a superficial knowledge of Soviet history will recognize "Little Nikita" as the perfect candidate, however, he was also a bumpkin. |
Well, I agree that Khrushchev did denounce in thought the methods of Stalin, but you have to realize, if Khrushchev lost the power struggle as I wrote about, don't you think that would have changed Khrushchev, making him into a different sort of man: a power-hungry man ready to use anything in his grasp to elevate himself? Losing a power-struggle does that to a man.
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| For a bit of color, "Iron" Lazar Kaganovich, who was Khrushchev's mentor under Stalin and didn't die until 1991, would have been a perfect "Man behind the curtain." Interestingly enough, Kaganovich is credited with inventing Stalinism, but Stalin himself rejected Kaganovich's idea of renaming Moscow to Stalinodar. |
Well that's interesting, why didn't Stalin rename Moscow?
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Finally, I reccommend Stalin's deification within the "United Peoples' Soviet Socialist Republics of Eurasia (UPSSRE). |
Check "2. Iconatry", second paragraph, near the bottom. He's been deified.
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JOHNNYBEGOOD
Inner Party Leader
Post #32072
Joined: 25 May 2006
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Posted: Sun 2006-09-03 00:48
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| Politics: Zionist |
Country: American Empire |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| For a bit of color, "Iron" Lazar Kaganovich, who was Khrushchev's mentor under Stalin and didn't die until 1991, would have been a perfect "Man behind the curtain." Interestingly enough, Kaganovich is credited with inventing Stalinism, but Stalin himself rejected Kaganovich's idea of renaming Moscow to Stalinodar. |
Well that's interesting, why didn't Stalin rename Moscow? |
I think he knew that renaming Moscow was a bit too much. The people wouldn't digest that very easily.
| M wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Finally, I reccommend Stalin's deification within the "United Peoples' Soviet Socialist Republics of Eurasia (UPSSRE). |
Check "2. Iconatry", second paragraph, near the bottom. He's been deified. |
I think Stalin should be converted into the sole diety, like Big Brother. Citizens get confused when they personify the party as several different people. Just look at America. The U.S. public personifies the shortcomings of the government as George W. Bush, even though he is not the only one responsible for the current problems in the White House. I think it would work better if Stalin was the immortal, ever-benevolent leader. All memories of other leaders would be tarnished by false posthumous accusations of betrayal. As a result, an order would be issued to burn all ikons of the blasphemous leaders.
This way with memories of all other leaders eradicated (or as they would say in Animal Farm, "buried"), power struggles in the Upper Party would be relegated to behind-the-scenes rivalry. No matter who was actually in control, the public would remain blissfully ignorant of it, and maintain the illusion of infallibility of their leader.
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #32073
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Sun 2006-09-03 01:35
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| Politics: Satanist |
Country: Ninth Plane of Hell |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote: |
| I think Stalin should be converted into the sole diety, like Big Brother. Citizens get confused when they personify the party as several different people. Just look at America. The U.S. public personifies the shortcomings of the government as George W. Bush, even though he is not the only one responsible for the current problems in the White House. I think it would work better if Stalin was the immortal, ever-benevolent leader. All memories of other leaders would be tarnished by false posthumous accusations of betrayal. As a result, an order would be issued to burn all ikons of the blasphemous leaders. |
The ideology of Eurasia is communalism; therefore, there should be equal deities. I understand how you want it to be like Big Brother, but it's more effective to have several deities to cover Iconatry. All in all, understand that Eurasia is slightly different from Oceania, in the way it practices and maintains power, and understand that politics in Eurasia are very different. An ideology of ikons (established to transition power from Eastern Orthodoxy/Catholicism [Saints;sainthood]) requires multiple icons.
| JOHNNYBEGOOD wrote: |
| This way with memories of all other leaders eradicated (or as they would say in Animal Farm, "buried"), power struggles in the Upper Party would be relegated to behind-the-scenes rivalry. No matter who was actually in control, the public would remain blissfully ignorant of it, and maintain the illusion of infallibility of their leader. |
The purpose of Neo-Bolshevism is not to eliminate memories of the leaders of Neo-Bolshevism/Bolshevism. It's to deify them in a setting familiar to adherants of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. With a new pantheon of Saints, loyalty to the State is assured in place of the Vatican/Moscow.
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utkiyaznik
Junior Spy
Post #32076
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Posted: Sun 2006-09-03 03:50
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| Politics: There is no spoon |
Country: Oceania |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Well Mephistopheles, I appreciate your kind words as well (I like the "kind words" thing in this forum and I'm led to understand that you're at least partly responsible). |
=O What makes you think I started a "kind words" fad here in the forum? |
I have no reason to think you started it, but it is a device you use quite often.
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Anyway, your choice of Khrushchev as the leader isinteresting. While most folk recognize him as the one who gave the "Secret Speech" denouncing Stalin at the 20th Party Congress which preceeded the "Thaw" wheren Gorbachev was educated, anyone who has more than a superficial knowledge of Soviet history will recognize "Little Nikita" as the perfect candidate, however, he was also a bumpkin. |
Well, I agree that Khrushchev did denounce in thought the methods of Stalin, but you have to realize, if Khrushchev lost the power struggle as I wrote about, don't you think that would have changed Khrushchev, making him into a different sort of man: a power-hungry man ready to use anything in his grasp to elevate himself? Losing a power-struggle does that to a man. |
I forgot to put plainly that this bumpkin was also a politician-- ruthless, opportunistic, conniving. Forged in the crucible of Stalin's inner circle, human life and personal loyalties were both cheap and expendible.
A good source for further reading is Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Sebag Montefiore.
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| For a bit of color, "Iron" Lazar Kaganovich, who was Khrushchev's mentor under Stalin and didn't die until 1991, would have been a perfect "Man behind the curtain." Interestingly enough, Kaganovich is credited with inventing Stalinism, but Stalin himself rejected Kaganovich's idea of renaming Moscow to Stalinodar. |
Well that's interesting, why didn't Stalin rename Moscow? |
As Johnny said, that would have been a bit too far. After it was first rejected, Kaganovich would bring up the idea in order to kiss the vozhd's ass when he was feeling a bit out of favor. This would usually send Stalin into an angry drunken rant, followed by a long drinking session where he would play DJ on the phonograph while making Khrushchev do Ukranian folk dances. But I digress.
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Finally, I reccommend Stalin's deification within the "United Peoples' Soviet Socialist Republics of Eurasia (UPSSRE). |
Check "2. Iconatry", second paragraph, near the bottom. He's been deified. |
I stand corrected.
Anyway, the keeping of icons is extremely important in the Eastern (Greek/Russian/Serbian) Orthodox Christian tradition. The devout have traditionally kept a corner of their homes for the display of these icons, the lighting of candles, the burning of incense, and prayer in general. These icons (generally intricately done scenes from the Bible or elaborate storyboards of the martyrdoms of saints) are extremely precious, like the one my grandmother's family kept buried for 100 years to keep it from the Turks. Had the Turks found the icon, I wouldn't be writing this because my ancestors would have been massacred. I relate this story to underline the importance of this historical tidbit:
In Stalin's time, in Soviet homes, the little corner where the icons go was replaced with a "red corner," a place where portraits of Lenin and Stalin were solemnly hung, candles lit, incense burned...
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I leave with the following dialogue, which I did not make up:
Stalin's Mom: What are you doing these days?
Stalin: Remember the Tsar? I'm kind of like that.
Mom: That's too bad. You should have become a priest like I wanted you to.
Stalin: Why did you beat me so much?
Mom: Why do you think you turned out as well as you did?
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #32079
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
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Posted: Sun 2006-09-03 04:22
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| Politics: Satanist |
Country: Ninth Plane of Hell |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| =O What makes you think I started a "kind words" fad here in the forum? |
I have no reason to think you started it, but it is a device you use quite often. |
I use it often? Thanks for the--- agh!
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
I forgot to put plainly that this bumpkin was also a politician-- ruthless, opportunistic, conniving. Forged in the crucible of Stalin's inner circle, human life and personal loyalties were both cheap and expendible.
A good source for further reading is Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Sebag Montefiore. |
Indeed. Khrushchev turned out to be an "ok" guy only because he won his power struggle against Malenkov, and thus, victory was sweet. When someone wins, they're usually less apt to be Stalinistic, unless you're Stalin, of course. Losing his power struggle would've destroyed Khrushchev from the inside-out.
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
| As Johnny said, that would have been a bit too far. After it was first rejected, Kaganovich would bring up the idea in order to kiss the vozhd's ass when he was feeling a bit out of favor. This would usually send Stalin into an angry drunken rant, followed by a long drinking session where he would play DJ on the phonograph while making Khrushchev do Ukranian folk dances. But I digress. |
Well that's an interesting image. 
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
I stand corrected.
Anyway, the keeping of icons is extremely important in the Eastern (Greek/Russian/Serbian) Orthodox Christian tradition. The devout have traditionally kept a corner of their homes for the display of these icons, the lighting of candles, the burning of incense, and prayer in general. These icons (generally intricately done scenes from the Bible or elaborate storyboards of the martyrdoms of saints) are extremely precious, like the one my grandmother's family kept buried for 100 years to keep it from the Turks. Had the Turks found the icon, I wouldn't be writing this because my ancestors would have been massacred. I relate this story to underline the importance of this historical tidbit:
In Stalin's time, in Soviet homes, the little corner where the icons go was replaced with a "red corner," a place where portraits of Lenin and Stalin were solemnly hung, candles lit, incense burned... |
Indeed! *Claps*! You're the first to realize the connection. Neo-Bolshevism hijacked Eastern Orthodoxy, as well as Catholic Sainthood, by forming a "communist" ikon system. It's much easier to hijack an already-existing system than to just create a new one; rename something, shove different ingredients inside, and the people will still eat it time and time again.
Simply imagine the "Red Corner" with, in addition to Stalin, Malenkov and Khrushchev.
| utkiyaznik wrote: |
-----
I leave with the following dialogue, which I did not make up:
Stalin's Mom: What are you doing these days?
Stalin: Remember the Tsar? I'm kind of like that.
Mom: That's too bad. You should have become a priest like I wanted you to.
Stalin: Why did you beat me so much?
Mom: Why do you think you turned out as well as you did? |
Which only validates child beating.
Was Stalin actually abused as a child? I wouldn't doubt it, seeing as how fucked up he turned out to be.
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utkiyaznik
Junior Spy
Post #32118
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Posted: Mon 2006-09-04 05:34
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| Politics: There is no spoon |
Country: Oceania |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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I suppose this is another reason not to kill off Beria in this alternative history, simply for the fucked-up-ness of it all. (see the other thread).
I'll get more elaborate later, I feel sleep coming on...
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JOHNNYBEGOOD
Inner Party Leader
Post #32128
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Posted: Mon 2006-09-04 06:53
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| Politics: Zionist |
Country: American Empire |
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With a constant stream of new leaders, there's dangerous room for variation. The Superstates were all supposed to be locked in a immobile state, with no possiblility of change. The Eurasia you describe, Mephistopheles, seems dangerously dynamic in a political sense. There also seems to be a lot of room for free thought.
Would there be a way to maintain a more permanet homeostasis?
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Russian_Rocket
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Posted: Thu 2006-09-07 03:02
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| Politics: Soviet |
Country: Russia |
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| Stalin's abuse as a kid |
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I am finally back after a summer of hard labor at the Ice Cream Warehouse. I am very impressed by the history that you hav described. The map is awesome. Although I do agree that it was odd that Kruschev would be able to create such a system. Although I can see how his initial political defeat would have made him ruthless, Krushcev was never the brightes bulb so to speak and I doubt he could have come up with such a system. Look at the dumb mistakes he made while he was General Secretary. Although the Space Program was good, his agro-reforms were a disaster. The corn-planting program (even in non-temperate zones - my grandmother had the KGB warn her after she spoke out against this program at a union meeting) and the Kazahastan wheat-planting program (the wheat was destryed by the winds) were complete disasters that caused him to LOSE ALL OF HIS PARTY SUPPORTERS. I just don't think he was smart enough to come up with such an ingenious system. Maybe an alliance of Beria and Malenkov would have worked a little better. More importantly, I think Kruschev would have still denounced Stalin because he genuinely felt that he was a criminal who did almost irreperable damage to communism.
Regarding Stalin's childhood, he was abused a lot by his alcoholic and ultra-conservative father, who ran a shoe-making business which eventually went bankrupt Read all about it in Robert Service's new bio of him.
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One Of The Few
Minister of Truth
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Posted: Fri 2006-10-27 14:44
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| Politics: Just plain NUTS! |
Country: Scotland |
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Actually, I do find this extremely offensive... NOT!
They say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and while I'm no great fan of flattery, I do like the idea that my work is useful for others.
Like Russian Rocket, however, I just can't square the idea of Nikita "Hair Brained" Khrushchev as a megalomanical, super-state constructing evil genius. Perhaps Beria would have been a better choice.
On the topic of alternative Soviet history, there is a very interesting debate in Russia (which is sadly rarely translated, so I only have a small grasp of its content) on what would have happened had Yuri Andropov lived longer, or come to power in the mid-1970s. Andropov's successes in his prief period (such as raising industrial output and productivity by 5% from January to March 1983) does lead itself to idoloisation, especially since he was sandwiched between Leonid "The" Brezhnev "Stagnation", and Konstantin "Blink And You'll Miss Him" Chernenko.
While many see Andropov as the antecedant to Gorbachev, I see him as an authoritarian who was willing to seek alternative solutions to the Soviet problem. He certainly wouldn't have allowed the progressive dismantling of the USSR which took place under Gorbachev.
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Azazel
Committee Leader
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Posted: Thu 2006-11-02 17:28
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
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[quote][/After the death of Khrushchev, it was announced that only an unanimous vote by the Party members could make a new General Secretary a Glorious Comrade. Each General Secretary has been unanimously voted each time.[quote]
it sounds to me like in this system the "glorius comrade" has far too much power, the fact that glorius comrade is alive makes him falliable. The beauty of oceania was that its rule was decentralized and no one person was in control, it sounds to me like a glorius comrade could enlist the help of the army and do whatever he wanted, including introducing elements of capitalism or even beginning democracy.
This system isn't near as stable as oceania. The fact that BB was not alive made him infalliable, untouchable.
Also having multiple icons would be a problem. What if Khrushev simply "demoted" the old glorius comrades and made himself the only one?
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One Of The Few
Minister of Truth
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Posted: Fri 2006-11-03 21:20
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| Politics: Just plain NUTS! |
Country: Scotland |
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| Jdmneon wrote: |
it sounds to me like in this system the "glorius comrade" has far too much power, the fact that glorius comrade is alive makes him falliable. The beauty of oceania was that its rule was decentralized and no one person was in control, it sounds to me like a glorius comrade could enlist the help of the army and do whatever he wanted, including introducing elements of capitalism or even beginning democracy.
This system isn't near as stable as oceania. The fact that BB was not alive made him infalliable, untouchable.
Also having multiple icons would be a problem. What if Khrushev simply "demoted" the old glorius comrades and made himself the only one? |
It's certainly a lot easier to be infalliable when you're dead. Just look at the censorship of Lenin in the 1930s: Lenin is always right; Stalin is always right; ergo, Stalin and Lenin must always be right. L is R, S is R, so L is S.
Your main complaint seems to be: if a General Secretary undertakes a program of restructuring and openess to achieve more efficiency, then the system could collapse. Or, in other words: what if what happened, happened?
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sorianofan
Filthy Animal
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Posted: Tue 2007-01-09 20:35
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| Politics: Libertarian |
Country: American Empire |
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| Quote: |
| Like Russian Rocket, however, I just can't square the idea of Nikita "Hair Brained" Khrushchev as a megalomanical, super-state constructing evil genius. Perhaps Beria would have been a better choice. |
I agree with this, but overall, great story mephi. Not only is the turn of events the most realistic out of oceania and fan-fic eastasia, it also is the most fallible--thus the large prison populations. While everyone lives in a prison-like state in oceania, and 85% part of the proles, there are no internal power disputes due to there is no true entity. All people in disputes must be imprisoned and out of sight.
However, Eurasia's system is ingenius. Party membership is not inherited. Glorious Comrade can only be obtained through obscene politicing and plotting. Even if you killed your way to Glorious Comrade, in order not to call into question your own authority, you would honor the deceased and when you go, so will you in the pseudo idoltry that goes on. Translation: no one can claw their way to such power without wanting absolute power. There will be no liberalization. Just a perpetuation of a ruthless system with ruthless people. Even if strife breaks out inside the party, the victors imprison everyone who opposed them (so as to not call into question the absolute power of the party's remaining members), and the same power structure continues. People can even think that their faction is different, but to the 99 % of the worker and slave population, revering pseudo Gods and starving to death, it is no diiferent. Subtle things may change, but as long as poverty, authoritarianism, and state religion remain, the system is intact.
What would put an end to that system as long as there was no working class revolt? The elites are not going to decreasetheir own power. They are not going to liberalize if they want grinding poverty. The system is stable and perpetual.
I think it fits Orwell nicely, with its religious undertones and perpetual authoritarianism. What people here don't like is that there is a human face on the system (the glorious comrade) instead of an ominous leader (BB). However, it does not matter who the human being that leads the country is, because to the people he's a pseudo God and his power absolute. To me, it is effectively just as faceless as Oceania's BB and just as effective...just with a neo-bolshevist twist of course.
Good job again loki.
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
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Posted: Wed 2007-01-10 04:19
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| Politics: Technocratic Syndicalist |
Country: United States |
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| sorianofan wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Like Russian Rocket, however, I just can't square the idea of Nikita "Hair Brained" Khrushchev as a megalomanical, super-state constructing evil genius. Perhaps Beria would have been a better choice. |
I agree with this, but overall, great story mephi. Not only is the turn of events the most realistic out of oceania and fan-fic eastasia, it also is the most fallible--thus the large prison populations. While everyone lives in a prison-like state in oceania, and 85% part of the proles, there are no internal power disputes due to there is no true entity. All people in disputes must be imprisoned and out of sight.
However, Eurasia's system is ingenius. Party membership is not inherited. Glorious Comrade can only be obtained through obscene politicing and plotting. Even if you killed your way to Glorious Comrade, in order not to call into question your own authority, you would honor the deceased and when you go, so will you in the pseudo idoltry that goes on. Translation: no one can claw their way to such power without wanting absolute power. There will be no liberalization. Just a perpetuation of a ruthless system with ruthless people. Even if strife breaks out inside the party, the victors imprison everyone who opposed them (so as to not call into question the absolute power of the party's remaining members), and the same power structure continues. People can even think that their faction is different, but to the 99 % of the worker and slave population, revering pseudo Gods and starving to death, it is no diiferent. Subtle things may change, but as long as poverty, authoritarianism, and state religion remain, the system is intact.
What would put an end to that system as long as there was no working class revolt? The elites are not going to decreasetheir own power. They are not going to liberalize if they want grinding poverty. The system is stable and perpetual.
I think it fits Orwell nicely, with its religious undertones and perpetual authoritarianism. What people here don't like is that there is a human face on the system (the glorious comrade) instead of an ominous leader (BB). However, it does not matter who the human being that leads the country is, because to the people he's a pseudo God and his power absolute. To me, it is effectively just as faceless as Oceania's BB and just as effective...just with a neo-bolshevist twist of course.
Good job again loki. |
Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad you liked the story. It only took me an hour to write up. ^^
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Comrade Aleks
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Posted: Sun 2007-05-20 11:55
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| Politics: Technocratism |
Country: British Empire |
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| Re: The Theory and Practice of Neo-Bolshevism |
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| Comrade Mephistopheles wrote: |
I'm going to write a short dissertation on Eurasia based on the layout of OOTF's disseration on Eastasia. It seems to be a simpler way of doing things than to just discuss it in essay format.
OOTF, if you feel my format completely plagarizes you, I then apologize. You simply laid out in very perfect terms the way to convey a philosophy of 1984's superpowers.
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THE FORMATION OF THE PHILOSOPHY OF NEO-BOLSHEVISM
After the Second World War, Russia in its form prior to the formation of Eurasia effectively annexed to its own control the nations of Eastern Europe east of the so-called "Iron Curtain" into an Eastern Bloc. This Eastern Bloc became hand-in-hand with the Russian Communist Party so much that Communism was installed in each nation as its own "democratic" will of the populace. On the other side, the West enjoyed many more freedoms than did their Eastern counterparts.
Following the death of Stalin in 1953, a short power struggle ensued with Malenkov the new General Secretary of the Communist Party of Russia. His lesser, Khrushchev, bitter over his loss to gain great power, decided to take an initiative and claim glory for himself, in a possible bid for his lost seat. Having spent the rest of 1954 secretly organizing units still loyal to him as a result of his personal combat in the Second World War to conduct "drills" near the West German border, he ordered an attack across the West German border. His forces suffered substantial losses and were forced to retreat, causing a chain reaction in the Russian lines. Believing the Westerners were the aggressors and not the other way around, Russian forces invaded West Germany. Malenkov, being informed by Khrushchev that the West attacked first, ordered a nuclear strike upon the Western nations, including the continental United States, as a pre-emtive strike. This failed, as a result of faulty intelligence and inefficiency in orders, leaving most American nuclear weapons virtually unscathed. The West launched a counter-attack, firm in the belief that the Russians had attacked first, which was correct. A short nuclear war ensued, leaving continental Europe, Britain, and North America ravaged by nuclear bombs and deadly fall-out.
In the aftermath of the Nuclear War of 1954, an unsigned and unofficial truce came effectively into being banning the use of nuclear weapons, or else the ruling parties of both great Blocs would suffer ultimate defeat to no one's benefit. Western troops evacuated the continent and escaped into Britain while Russian forces took over the ravaged cities of continental Europe. In Moscow, Khrushchev ordered the assassination of Malenkov, elevating himself to General Secretary as a result of his personal command of forces during the Nuclear War, giving him the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, and a serious war hero contender amongst the greatest Russian war heroes of his time. Proclaiming a New Bolshevik programme, Khrushchev re-organized the Communist Parties across all of Eurasia to accept and dispense the new Eurasian ideology.
Disseminating propaganda across Europe was no hard task; the populace, ravaged by the Second World War as a recent event, and by the Nuclear War, accepted Eurasian propaganda that the War was started by the West. In the West, at the same time, the War caused major rethinking in how society needed to be formed in order to prevent another war of such magnitude, and Oceania became to take shape.
With many small and gratutious-sized nations of Europe neutral during the War, Eurasian forces whittled down their independence one nation after another. Relocating the population from city to city instilled a fear and compliance towards their new masters. Given the choice of either being killed, or accepting the invasion as a matter of survival, most gave in and submitted to Eurasian authority. Additionally, with the formation of Oceania coming into being before the end of the 1950s, and the beginnings of an alliance of East Asian nations, submission to the Neo-Bolshevik Party of Eurasia was firmly linked with survival. It was painted as the will of the people.
The flag of Eurasia was based upon the old Soviet "hammer and sickle", with two stars representing the two continents which Eurasia stretched across, and the color green to represent natural victory.
Eurasia organized itself along nationalistic lines prior to the War in order to control the populations much more easily. With their infrastructure destroyed in the aftermath of the atom bombs and troop ravagings, national "republics" were set up with Russian Republic overseers to build their republics again. The nationalism inherent in each republic was replaced with an overall Eurasian nationalistic pride; pride in being one of the largest nations on Earth, and pride in having successfully won the Atomic War. The last incident was quite literally an endless pool of patriotism which could be counted upon to inspire workers to work harder to win a new war, just as they had won the previous War.
Under the leadership of Glorious Comrade Khrushchev, Eurasia rebuilt enough infrastructure to sustain itself on a bare minimum. With transportation systems rebuilt to a bare minimum, whole populations were deported and re-arranged throughout each Republic to assist in an Eurasian programme of sowing complete dependency on the State. All Jews found themselves deported to the Jewish Republic in the Far-east while former nations such as Spain and Portugal were lumped together into an Iberian Republic. The currency of each Republic was set to rubles, and in face of Russianization, each Republic was faced with a re-organized school system teaching children Russian instead of their native languages. Adults were also forced to participate in re-education centers designed to teach them Russian. Yet, the common denominator in each Republic was that each citizen raised the same flag: the flag of the Neo-Bolshevik Party.
As of 1984, with its gulags, Eurasia has the most extensive prison system in the world. Sent to the gulags for even minor infractions of the law, almost one-quarter of the entire Eurasian population is confined within gulags stretching from both sides of Siberia. While political criminals are simply given show trials and executed, regular criminals are relegated into the gulags. From there, there is no escape, and no release. It's a life-sentence. In this sense, a virtual slave class exists within the gulags which is forced to produce war material and paraphernalia. With male and females not being separated, children are born into the gulags, and since no one leaves the gulags, despite their innocence, the slaves perpetuate themselves with slave children.
However, life was not without end, and Khrushchev eventually died during 1971 of natural causes, in the Kremlin. His figure lives on as an object of worship in the form of an ikon for the millions of Neo-Bolshevik adherents across all of Eurasia's great Republics.
THE PRINCIPLES AND PRACTICE OF NEO-BOLSHEVISM
1. национализма (Nationalism)
"Without struggle, there can be no victory, and without victory, our struggle would have failed." - Nikita Khrushchev
In the aftermath of the Atomic War, and in the resulting chaos and rampant destruction of European civilization and Eurasian occupation of continental Europe, a method of unity and control had to be enabled in order to keep the very fabric of continental European society afloat and alive. Substituting Neo-Bolshevik patriotism for the nationalism inherent in each nation overrun by Eurasian forces, a new form of pan-European-Asian nationalism was born.
Extolling the virtues of community and of iconatry, as well as being a victorious nation in the Atomic War, were used as an endless pool from which to draw patriotism at the appropriate times by the ruling Neo-Bolshevik Party of Eurasia. With "spontaneous" demonstrations showing pride for Eurasia and for the Glorious Comrades dead in honorable combat (Khrushchev always died in combat, comrade.), nationalism was instilled into every citizen across Eurasia in the form of chills down one's spine, and a burning in one's heart for the glorious victory over Oceania during the War. Eurasia effectively became a nation of mindless drones, raising the same flag, chanting the same slogans, eating the same meals, and marching to the same beat.
2. иконизма (Iconatry)
"Praise your fellow Glorious Comrades, for their deaths serve as a reminder that we all must make sacrifices for the noble cause!" - Nikita Khrushchev
As Glorious Comrade Khrushchev knew, nationalism alone could not instill unity throughout Eurasia by itself. A new system of worship and beliefs had to be created, and therein lies the ideology of iconatry. Once religious in nature, it now occupies the nature of political religion.
Elevating himself to Glorious Comrade (a position only held by Glorious Comrades Lenin and Stalin), Khrushchev elevated himself effectively to god-hood. The ownership of ikons being a requirement under unspoken penalty of death, each community home has ikons displayed in almost every room. In the factories, in the homes, in the gulags, and even in the filthy rest-rooms, the faces of Lenin, Stalin, Malenkov, and Khrushchev benevolently smile down upon the average cold, malnourished, and thread-bare citizen of Eurasia.
Although Khrushchev had Malenkov killed whilst making it look like a death by natural causes, he had no real choice but to elevate Malenkov also to the title of Glorious Comrade.
After the death of Khrushchev, it was announced that only an unanimous vote by the Party members could make a new General Secretary a Glorious Comrade. Each General Secretary has been unanimously voted each time.
With Russian leaders prominently displayed in every home as a virtual god, the rule of the Party was ensured, and the Nationalistic tendences of the people of Eurasia were fed. Elevated to virtual god-hood, the Glorious Comrades resided in the heart of each citizen.
3. сообщестивизма (Communalism)
"Be happy you have a bed to sleep in, clothes to wear, and plentiful potatoes to eat!" - Nikita Khrushchev
Designed to create dependency, in fact, complete dependency upon the State via mass-deportations and constant forced moves from city to city, or Republic to Republic, the ideology of communalism is one of the great ideologies of the Neo-Bolshevik Party.
Every worker shares a house with other workers. Every worker shares the same clothes, the same boots, even the same goods. With their clothes rotated around to instill a sense of community pride and feeling, many workers often go to work barefoot, unable to wear the boot size provided by the previous worker. Every worker shares a bed, and shares the same mates. There are no marriages or relationships between a man and woman anymore. Several women are assigned to one male, and several males are assigned to one female. Such is the way of things.
Each year, workers are given new move orders. Some are moved to different community homes nearby in the same city, while others are ordered to move to entirely different cities in the same Republic, or sometimes entirely new Republics throughout Eurasia. The only constant is the State, the eternal provider and keeper of sanity.
Workers are not the only class in Eurasia, of course. The social structure consists of four classes: Glorious-Comrades, Party members, workers, and slaves. Glorious-Comrades fill the highest echelon in Eurasian society, and are considered virtual gods. They are worshipped, praised, and their lives are always somewhat murky as the personal events are being constantly upgraded to further mythologize their past. Party members are the bureaucrats of society, running Eurasia, organizing events, and devising new methods of killing the enemy in their eternal war, and much like the Party of Oceania, the Party of Eurasia is also not hereditary. Workers are the proletariat, they form the brute force class of Eurasia, doing all the heavy, manual physical labor in society. Slaves are either criminals sentenced to gulags, or children born of gulag parents. They do dirty work, such as build explosives and other dangerous material to cut down on human cost. |
Absoloutley fantastic Comrade! Orwell would have been proud!
I always wondered what it was like in Eurasia, and how the War had begun and such. Great work! Keep it up!
Perhaps a small sequal to 1984 should be next? After Winston or something.
Good Day, and God Bless you all Comrades! God Bless you all!
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| Sindark Nave wrote: |
I am extremely, awfully, dreadfully, eminently, exceedingly, exceptionally, extra, greatly, highly, most, notably, very strange, peculiar, odd, queer, outlandish, and eccentric. Salutations.
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"To such devices have we descended"
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Comrade Aleks
Committee Leader
Post #42426
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Posted: Sun 2007-05-20 12:20
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| Politics: Technocratism |
Country: British Empire |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Comrade Mephistopheles wrote: |
| What's dangerous about a dead man? |
Dead men can be very dangerous. Allow me to tell you a perfectly true stroy of British (thank you) ingenuity in WW2.
If you don't want to read all of this then scroll down to the summary at the bottom. 
Operation Mincemeat
Operation Mincemeat was a highly successful British deception plan during World War II which convinced the German High Command (OKW) that the Allies would invade the Balkans and Sardinia instead of the island of Sicily, the actual objective. The operation called for making the Germans believe that they had, by accident, intercepted highly classified documents detailing future Allied war plans, and part of Mincemeat's success lay in the unusual nature of the operation: the plans were attached to a corpse deliberately left to wash up on a Spanish beach. The story was subsequently told in a book and later film as The Man Who Never Was.
Planning for the deception
As the North African Campaign was winding down, Allied planners turned their attention to mainland Europe. Sicily's location made it a strategic first objective. As well as providing a springboard for the invasion of the continent, control of the island would help safeguard Allied shipping in the Mediterranean. However, the strategic importance of the island was not lost on the Germans. It was the base of Luftwaffe air attacks against the British stronghold of Malta. Furthermore, as the massive Allied buildup for the invasion (code-named Operation Husky) would surely be detected as a sign of an impending operation, the Allies had to deceive the Germans, so that they would not concentrate their forces and repulse the allied invasion.
A few months before, Flight Lt. Charles Cholmondeley of Section B1(a) of MI5[1], came up with an idea of having a wireless radio dropped in France by means of a dead man attached to a badly-opened parachute, thereby giving the Allies the opportunity to feed misinformation to the Germans. This was dismissed as impractical and unworkable; however the idea was taken up a few months later by a small inter-service, interdepartmental intelligence team called the Twenty Committee.
As described in his published account, author and team member Lt. Cmdr. Ewen Montagu, a naval intelligence officer, relates that the possibilities for the success of Cholmondeley's deception idea evolved into a more workable plan. Together they quickly devised the details of the ruse. The deception team first thought that the documents would have to be recovered from a man who died due to an unopened parachute, as Cholmondeley had proposed. However, since the Germans knew that it was Allied policy never to send sensitive documents over enemy territory, they decided to make the man a victim of a plane crash at sea. That would explain the fact that the man would be dead for several days if found floating in the sea and solve the problem of the documents. Now that they had a plan, the operation needed a code name. Montagu gave the operation the code name of Mincemeat, just restored to the list of available names after its employment in a previously successful mission.
Precedents
The idea of using a corpse with documents was nothing new. Two incidents that Montagu would have been aware of illustrated this. The first incident happened in August 1942 when a deception plan was executed before the Battle of Alam Halfa by using a corpse with a planted map. The body was placed in a blown-up scout car for the Germans to find, in a minefield facing the 90th Light Division just south of Quaret el Abd. The map included the locations of non-existent Allied minefields. The Germans fell for the ruse, and Rommel's panzers were routed to areas of soft sand where they bogged down.
The second incident was not a deception at all, but rather a close call. In September that same year a PBY Catalina crashed off Cadiz carrying a courier named Paymaster-Lt. James Hadden Turner of the Royal Navy. When his body was washed up on the beach near Tarifa and recovered by the Spanish authorities, he was carrying a letter from General Mark Clark to the Governor of Gibraltar, which named French agents in North Africa and gave the date of the Torch landings as November 4 (although the actual landings happened on November 8). When the body was returned, the letter was still in its possession, and it was determined that the letter was never opened when examined by technicians. Of course, the Germans had the means to read the letter without opening the envelope, but, if they had, they apparently dismissed the information as bogus, regarding it as "planted" and therefore not acted upon -- until it was too late.
Major William Martin, Royal Marines
With the help of the renowned pathologist Sir Bernard Spilsbury, Montagu and his team were able to determine what kind of body they needed for this purpose, one that appeared to have died by drowning. Through the most discreet inquiries they were able to secure the body of a 34-year old man who recently died of chemically-induced pneumonia as the result of ingesting rat poison. They briefed the man's next of kin of the operation and swore them to secrecy. The man's family agreed, on the condition that the man's real identity would never be revealed. Since the man died of pneumonia, the fluid in his lungs would be consistent with that of a man who had been at sea for an extended period.
The next step was creating a "legend", or a false identity for the man — Captain/Acting Major William Martin, Royal Marines, born 1907, in Cardiff, Wales, and assigned to Headquarters, Combined Operations. The rank of acting Major was assigned because a man with a more junior rank would not be entrusted with sensitive documents, but a man in his thirties would be considered old for a Captain of Marines. Making Martin an acting Major would solve both problems and would give the impression that he was a trusted officer.
To give credence to this cover identity they supplied him with a fiancée named Pam (actually a woman clerk from MI5), complete with photograph and love letters (plus a letter from his father expressing his dissatisfaction with his son's choice of bride). They also provided for a set of keys, theatre stubs for a recent performance, a statement from his club for lodging in London, and so forth. To make him even more believable, Montagu and his team decided to insinuate his careless nature such as overdue bills, a replacement identification card to replace the one he lost, an expired pass to Combined Operations HQ that he forgot to renew, and an irate missive from a bank manager from Lloyds Bank for an overdraft of £17 19s 11d. This last touch, although ingenious, carried an element of risk as the possibility existed that the Abwehr would be suspicious of a careless man having been entrusted with sensitive documents. However, if Montagu was aware of the Catalina incident, he was also counting on the Germans' awareness that they had previously missed an intelligence coup. But it was also necessary to imply carelessness, because they had to find a way to ensure that both the body and the briefcase with the documents would be recovered together. The solution decided upon was that Martin would be wearing a chain looped around his trench coat, to give the impression of a man who wanted to be comfortable during a long flight, but who also wanted to have the case with him at all times, indicating a trusted, if somewhat careless officer.
While the cover identity was being created by Montagu and his team, the documents needed to make the ruse work were being created, since they needed to deceive the Germans that the invasion would be taking place somewhere besides Sicily. Thus the scenario to attack Sardinia first as a staging area for an invasion of the south of France, to be followed by a second major thrust against Greece through the Balkans. Rather than state the obvious through official documents, the war plans would be suggested through a personal letter from Lt. Gen. Sir Archibald Nye, vice chief of the Imperial General Staff to General Sir Harold Alexander, the British commander in North Africa. It would be revealed in an "off-the record" manner that there would be two operations: Alexander would attack Sardinia and Corsica, while General Sir Henry Wilson would take on Greece (which was given the name "Operation Husky", the real name of the Sicily invasion). Furthermore, in a master stroke of reverse psychology, the letter disclosed that deception plans were being drawn up to convince the Germans that they were going to invade Sicily. This would give the impression that they were dealing with a force strong enough for two separate operations that would take place far from the intended target, causing them to disperse their forces to meet the threat.
To emphasize the letter's sensitive nature as well as to establish Major Martin's qualifications for travel to North Africa, Montagu also included another letter from Lord Louis Mountbatten, the Chief of Combined Operations, to Admiral Sir Andrew Cunningham, Commander-in-Chief in the Mediterranean. In the letter, Mountbatten extolled Major Martin's expertise in amphibious operations; more important was that Mountbatten also told Cunningham that Martin was carrying a letter too important to be sent through normal channels, hence the need for Major Martin to fly. The letter intimated that Sardinia was to be an invasion target.
Execution
Major Martin, preserved in dry ice and dressed in his Royal Marines uniform, was placed in a sealed steel canister, and Cholmondeley and Montagu hired a car to deliver it to Holy Loch, Scotland and placed on board the British submarine HMS Seraph. Montagu had made the arrangement through Admiral Barry, the flag officer in charge of submarines. Barry suggested the Seraph, which was available. This was fortunate, for its commanding officer, Lt. Norman L.A. (Bill) Jewell and his crew had previous special operations experience.
On April 19, 1943 the Seraph set sail to a point about a mile off Huelva on the coast of Spain. This location was decided because they knew that Spain, despite being neutral was sympathetic with the Axis and was crawling with Abwehr agents, allowing for easy discovery. It was known that there was a German agent stationed in Huelva with excellent contacts with Spanish officials.
At 0430 hrs. on April 30, Lt. Jewell ordered the canister to be brought up on deck of the surfaced submarine by the crew. He previously told the crew that a top secret meteorological device was being deployed and ordered everyone below deck. He gathered his officers, briefed them on the details of the operation and swore them to secrecy. They then opened the canister, fitted Major Martin with a life jacket, and secured his briefcase with the papers. The 39th Psalm was read and the body was gently pushed into the sea where the tide would bring it ashore. Jewell afterwards sent a message to the Committee: "MINCEMEAT completed".
The body was discovered at around 9:30 in the morning by a local fisherman, Jose Antonio Rey Maria, who brought him to port and the report of the discovery was made to the local Abwehr, of which the chief was a man named Adolf Clauss, the son of the German consul, who operated under the cover of an agriculture technician.
"Mincemeat swallowed whole"
Three days later, the Committee received a cable from the Naval Attaché of the news of the body's discovery. After handing over the body to the British Vice-Consul F.K. Hazeldene, Major Martin was buried with full military honours on May 4 in Huelva.
The Vice Consul arranged for a pathologist, Eduardo Del Torno, to carry out a post-mortem. He reported that the man had fallen into the sea while still alive and had no bruises, death was due to drowning, and that the body had been in the sea between 3 and 5 days. A more comprehensive examination was not made because the pathologist took him for a Roman Catholic due to a silver crucifix that hung from his neck as well as a St. Christopher plaque in his wallet.
Meanwhile, Montagu decided to include Major Martin's name in the next British casualty list and a month later was published in The Times, knowing that the Germans would be bound to read them to confirm Martin's bona fides. (By coincidence, the names of two other officers who actually died when their plane was lost at sea en route to Gibraltar were also published that day, giving credence to Major Martin's "story".) To further the ruse, a series of urgent messages were made by the Admiralty to the Naval Attaché demanding the return of the documents found with the body at all costs due to their sensitive nature and to make the inquiries discreet so as not to alert the Spanish authorities of their importance. The papers were returned on May 13, with the assurance that "everything was there".
The Germans got wind of the discovery and the local Abwehr agent with some difficulty was able to obtain the documents. The envelopes were carefully opened by the Germans and the letters photographed. They were then given to the British by Spanish officials. The photographs were rushed to Berlin where they were evaluated by German intelligence.
When Major Martin's body was returned and the papers examined, the British had been able to determine that the papers were read, carefully refolded and resealed. Further confirmation from ULTRA prompted a cable to be sent to Winston Churchill, then in the United States: "Mincemeat Swallowed Whole".
The documents were indeed swallowed whole. The care which Montagu and his team had lavished on establishing Martin's identity paid off, for they were to learn much later that the Germans noted the date on the theatre stubs (April 22, 1943) and confirmed their authenticity. As a result Hitler was so convinced of the veracity of the bogus documents that he disagreed with Mussolini that Sicily would be the most likely invasion point, insisting that any incursion against the island should be regarded as a feint. Hitler ordered the reinforcement of Sardinia and Corsica and sent Field Marshall Erwin Rommel to Athens to form an Army Group. Even patrol boats as well as minesweepers and minelayers marked for the defence of Sicily were diverted. Perhaps the most critical move of all was diverting two panzer divisions to Greece from the Eastern Front where they were most needed, especially when the Germans were preparing to engage the Russians in the Kursk salient.
Operation Husky began on July 9, with the Allies attacking Sicily. The Germans remained convinced for two more weeks that the main attack would be in Sardinia and Greece. As a result, the Allies met relatively little resistance and the conquest of Sicily was complete by August 9. Moreover, the fall of Palermo in the middle of July inspired the coup against Mussolini, and he fell from power on July 27.
Impact on later operations
During Operation Market-Garden, the invasion of Holland in September 1944, a British staff officer had inadvertently left behind on a transport glider a complete operations order with maps and graphics for the airborne phase of the invasion, which was not even supposed to be brought on a glider or elsewhere with the invading troops. The operations order fell into German hands, but the Germans, convinced that this was another attempt at an Operation Mincemeat-style deception, actually deployed their forces contrary to the information before them. This was referenced in both Corneluis Ryan's book A Bridge Too Far and the 1977 film based on it.
Who was Major Martin?
The grave of Major Martin at Huelva, SpainThe man known as Major Martin lies in the Cemetery of Solitude in Huelva. As Mincemeat became legend the question persisted: what was the identity of the man known as Major William Martin?
It was only in 1996 that an amateur historian by the name of Roger Morgan was able to uncover evidence that "Martin" was a vagrant Welsh alcoholic named Glyndwr Michael who died of ingesting rat poison, although how this happened is unknown.[2][7] While it will never be completely certain, this is the most likely candidate for the identity of "Martin".
As for Ewen Montagu, he was awarded the Military Order of the British Empire for his part in Operation Mincemeat. He later became Judge Advocate of the Fleet. Montagu later wrote a book about the operation, The Man Who Never Was (1953), which was made into a film of the same name (1955). The submarine used in the film wore pennant number P219, that of HMS Seraph, and she was indeed still in commission in 1954/55.
HMS Dasher connection
In the book, The Secrets of HMS Dasher authors John and Noreen Steele claim that the body was not of Glyndwr, but of one of the victims of the aircraft carrier HMS Dasher accident. As reasoning they present evidence that the body of the vagrant was "acquired" in January 1943 and would have suffered decomposition even on ice. Why else would the submarine HMS Seraph be ordered up the east coast of Scotland, around the north, and then turn south and make for the Firth of Clyde? It would have made more sense for Major Montagu to drive straight to Blyth where the Seraph was berthed. The authors think that a new body was needed for the operation as the original body had decomposed to the point of being unusable and the container that Montagu took to Holy Loch was empty.
Therefore they proposed that the body of the man that was used for the operation was that of John "Jack" Melville, 37, a sailor who was killed when the HMS Dasher blew up in the Clyde Estuary. His identity as the fictitious Major Martin was officially recognized by the Royal Navy when a memorial service was held in his honor aboard the patrol boat HMS Dasher in waters around a British sovereign RAF base in Cyprus on October 8, 2004. According to Lieut. Commander Mark Hill, the commanding officer of the naval squadron in Cyprus:
“ In his incarnation as Major Martin, John Melville’s memory lives on in the film, The Man Who Never Was. But we are gathered here today to remember John Melville as a man who most certainly was.
For all those too lazy to read all that, I shall summarise.
Operation Mincemeat was a very succesful plan to lure the German defence forces away from Sicilly.
This was done by placing documents on a dead mans body and allowing it to wash up on "neutral" Spain. The documents gave details off an Allied incursion off the Balkans and Sardinia, not Sicilly, the actuall objective.
The Germans fell for it and rushed off to defend were they thought they were going to be invaded. So, the allies went on and invaded and took Sicilly. So dead men do tell tales thank you very much.
Oh yes, one more thing, have you not heard of a little thing called a "martyr"?
Good Day, and God Bless.
_________________
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
| Sindark Nave wrote: |
I am extremely, awfully, dreadfully, eminently, exceedingly, exceptionally, extra, greatly, highly, most, notably, very strange, peculiar, odd, queer, outlandish, and eccentric. Salutations.
|
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23
"To such devices have we descended"
A Handmaids Tale, by Margaret Atwood |
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Sindark Nave
Inner Party Leader
Post #42438
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 1141
Total Words: 150,439
Average words per post: 131.85
PoliMatch: n/a
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Posted: Sun 2007-05-20 15:09
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| Politics: X-tremely Silly Party |
Country: Titan |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Comrade Alexander wrote: |
| Comrade Mephistopheles wrote: |
| What's dangerous about a dead man? |
Dead men can be very dangerous. Allow me to tell you a perfectly true stroy of British (thank you) ingenuity in WW2.
If you don't want to read all of this then scroll down to the summary at the bottom.
Operation Mincemeat
Operation Mincemeat was a highly successful British deception plan during World War II which convinced the German High Command (OKW) that the Allies would invade the Balkans and Sardinia instead of the island of Sicily, the actual objective. The operation called for making the Germans believe that they had, by accident, intercepted highly classified documents detailing future Allied war plans, and part of Mincemeat's success lay in the unusual nature of the operation: the plans were attached to a corpse deliberately left to wash up on a Spanish beach. The story was subsequently told in a book and later film as The Man Who Never Was.
Planning for the deception
As the North African Campaign was winding down, Allied planners turned their attention to mainland Europe. Sicily's location made it a strategic first objective. As well as providing a springboard for the invasion of the continent, control of the island would help safeguard Allied shipping in the Mediterranean. However, the strategic importance of the island was not lost on the Germans. It was the base of Luftwaffe air attacks against the British stronghold of Malta. Furthermore, as the massive Allied buildup for the invasion (code-named Operation Husky) would surely be detected as a sign of an impending operation, the Allies had to deceive the Germans, so that they would not concentrate their forces and repulse the allied invasion.
A few months before, Flight Lt. Charles Cholmondeley of Section B1(a) of MI5[1], came up with an idea of having a wireless radio dropped in France by means of a dead man attached to a badly-opened parachute, thereby giving the Allies the opportunity to feed misinformation to the Germans. This was dismissed as impractical and unworkable; however the idea was taken up a few months later by a small inter-service, interdepartmental intelligence team called the Twenty Committee.
As described in his published account, author and team member Lt. Cmdr. Ewen Montagu, a naval intelligence officer, relates that the possibilities for the success of Cholmondeley's deception idea evolved into a more workable plan. Together they quickly devised the details of the ruse. The deception team first thought that the documents would have to be recovered from a man who died due to an unopened parachute, as Cholmondeley had proposed. However, since the Germans knew that it was Allied policy never to send sensitive documents over enemy territory, they decided to make the man a victim of a plane crash at sea. That would explain the fact that the man would be dead for several days if found floating in the sea and solve the problem of the documents. Now that they had a plan, the operation needed a code name. Montagu gave the operation the code name of Mincemeat, just restored to the list of available names after its employment in a previously successful mission.
Execution
Major Martin, preserved in dry ice and dressed in his Royal Marines uniform, was placed in a sealed steel canister, and Cholmondeley and Montagu hired a car to deliver it to Holy Loch, Scotland and placed on board the British submarine HMS Seraph. Montagu had made the arrangement through Admiral Barry, the flag officer in charge of submarines. Barry suggested the Seraph, which was available. This was fortunate, for its commanding officer, Lt. Norman L.A. (Bill) Jewell and his crew had previous special operations experience.
On April 19, 1943 the Seraph set sail to a point about a mile off Huelva on the coast of Spain. This location was decided because they knew that Spain, despite being neutral was sympathetic with the Axis and was crawling with Abwehr agents, allowing for easy discovery. It was known that there was a German agent stationed in Huelva with excellent contacts with Spanish officials.
At 0430 hrs. on April 30, Lt. Jewell ordered the canister to be brought up on deck of the surfaced submarine by the crew. He previously told the crew that a top secret meteorological device was being deployed and ordered everyone below deck. He gathered his officers, briefed them on the details of the operation and swore them to secrecy. They then opened the canister, fitted Major Martin with a life jacket, and secured his briefcase with the papers. The 39th Psalm was read and the body was gently pushed into the sea where the tide would bring it ashore. Jewell afterwards sent a message to the Committee: "MINCEMEAT completed".
The body was discovered at around 9:30 in the morning by a local fisherman, Jose Antonio Rey Maria, who brought him to port and the report of the discovery was made to the local Abwehr, of which the chief was a man named Adolf Clauss, the son of the German consul, who operated under the cover of an agriculture technician.
"Mincemeat swallowed whole"
Three days later, the Committee received a cable from the Naval Attaché of the news of the body's discovery. After handing over the body to the British Vice-Consul F.K. Hazeldene, Major Martin was buried with full military honours on May 4 in Huelva.
The Vice Consul arranged for a pathologist, Eduardo Del Torno, to carry out a post-mortem. He reported that the man had fallen into the sea while still alive and had no bruises, death was due to drowning, and that the body had been in the sea between 3 and 5 days. A more comprehensive examination was not made because the pathologist took him for a Roman Catholic due to a silver crucifix that hung from his neck as well as a St. Christopher plaque in his wallet.
Meanwhile, Montagu decided to include Major Martin's name in the next British casualty list and a month later was published in The Times, knowing that the Germans would be bound to read them to confirm Martin's bona fides. (By coincidence, the names of two other officers who actually died when their plane was lost at sea en route to Gibraltar were also published that day, giving credence to Major Martin's "story".) To further the ruse, a series of urgent messages were made by the Admiralty to the Naval Attaché demanding the return of the documents found with the body at all costs due to their sensitive nature and to make the inquiries discreet so as not to alert the Spanish authorities of their importance. The papers were returned on May 13, with the assurance that "everything was there".
The Germans got wind of the discovery and the local Abwehr agent with some difficulty was able to obtain the documents. The envelopes were carefully opened by the Germans and the letters photographed. They were then given to the British by Spanish officials. The photographs were rushed to Berlin where they were evaluated by German intelligence.
When Major Martin's body was returned and the papers examined, the British had been able to determine that the papers were read, carefully refolded and resealed. Further confirmation from ULTRA prompted a cable to be sent to Winston Churchill, then in the United States: "Mincemeat Swallowed Whole".
The documents were indeed swallowed whole. The care which Montagu and his team had lavished on establishing Martin's identity paid off, for they were to learn much later that the Germans noted the date on the theatre stubs (April 22, 1943) and confirmed their authenticity. As a result Hitler was so convinced of the veracity of the bogus documents that he disagreed with Mussolini that Sicily would be the most likely invasion point, insisting that any incursion against the island should be regarded as a feint. Hitler ordered the reinforcement of Sardinia and Corsica and sent Field Marshall Erwin Rommel to Athens to form an Army Group. Even patrol boats as well as minesweepers and minelayers marked for the defence of Sicily were diverted. Perhaps the most critical move of all was diverting two panzer divisions to Greece from the Eastern Front where they were most needed, especially when the Germans were preparing to engage the Russians in the Kursk salient.
Operation Husky began on July 9, with the Allies attacking Sicily. The Germans remained convinced for two more weeks that the main attack would be in Sardinia and Greece. As a result, the Allies met relatively little resistance and the conquest of Sicily was complete by August 9. Moreover, the fall of Palermo in the middle of July inspired the coup against Mussolini, and he fell from power on July 27.
Impact on later operations
During Operation Market-Garden, the invasion of Holland in September 1944, a British staff officer had inadvertently left behind on a transport glider a complete operations order with maps and graphics for the airborne phase of the invasion, which was not even supposed to be brought on a glider or elsewhere with the invading troops. The operations order fell into German hands, but the Germans, convinced that this was another attempt at an Operation Mincemeat-style deception, actually deployed their forces contrary to the information before them. This was referenced in both Corneluis Ryan's book A Bridge Too Far and the 1977 film based on it.
Who was Major Martin?
The grave of Major Martin at Huelva, SpainThe man known as Major Martin lies in the Cemetery of Solitude in Huelva. As Mincemeat became legend the question persisted: what was the identity of the man known as Major William Martin?
It was only in 1996 that an amateur historian by the name of Roger Morgan was able to uncover evidence that "Martin" was a vagrant Welsh alcoholic named Glyndwr Michael who died of ingesting rat poison, although how this happened is unknown.[2][7] While it will never be completely certain, this is the most likely candidate for the identity of "Martin".
As for Ewen Montagu, he was awarded the Military Order of the British Empire for his part in Operation Mincemeat. He later became Judge Advocate of the Fleet. Montagu later wrote a book about the operation, The Man Who Never Was (1953), which was made into a film of the same name (1955). The submarine used in the film wore pennant number P219, that of HMS Seraph, and she was indeed still in commission in 1954/55.
HMS Dasher connection
In the book, The Secrets of HMS Dasher authors John and Noreen Steele claim that the body was not of Glyndwr, but of one of the victims of the aircraft carrier HMS Dasher accident. As reasoning they present evidence that the body of the vagrant was "acquired" in January 1943 and would have suffered decomposition even on ice. Why else would the submarine HMS Seraph be ordered up the east coast of Scotland, around the north, and then turn south and make for the Firth of Clyde? It would have made more sense for Major Montagu to drive straight to Blyth where the Seraph was berthed. The authors think that a new body was needed for the operation as the original body had decomposed to the point of being unusable and the container that Montagu took to Holy Loch was empty.
Therefore they proposed that the body of the man that was used for the operation was that of John "Jack" Melville, 37, a sailor who was killed when the HMS Dasher blew up in the Clyde Estuary. His identity as the fictitious Major Martin was officially recognized by the Royal Navy when a memorial service was held in his honor aboard the patrol boat HMS Dasher in waters around a British sovereign RAF base in Cyprus on October 8, 2004. According to Lieut. Commander Mark Hill, the commanding officer of the naval squadron in Cyprus:
“ In his incarnation as Major Martin, John Melville’s memory lives on in the film, The Man Who Never Was. But we are gathered here today to remember John Melville as a man who most certainly was.
For all those too lazy to read all that, I shall summarise.
Operation Mincemeat was a very succesful plan to lure the German defence forces away from Sicilly.
This was done by placing documents on a dead mans body and allowing it to wash up on "neutral" Spain. The documents gave details off an Allied incursion off the Balkans and Sardinia, not Sicilly, the actuall objective.
The Germans fell for it and rushed off to defend were they thought they were going to be invaded. So, the allies went on and invaded and took Sicilly. So dead men do tell tales thank you very much.
Oh yes, one more thing, have you not heard of a little thing called a "martyr"?
Good Day, and God Bless. |
Use Equote, m'boy. Like this:
| Code: |
| [equote="Slick Site"]This is something I got from the web, ain't it cool?![/equote] |
Produces:
| From Slick Site |
| This is something I got from the web, ain't it cool?! |
_________________
capitalists of the world unite
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Comrade Aleks
Committee Leader
Post #42530
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 635
Total Words: 75,423
Average words per post: 118.78
PoliMatch: n/a
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Posted: Tue 2007-05-22 09:03
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| Politics: Technocratism |
Country: British Empire |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Comrade Chairman wrote: |
[
Use Equote, m'boy. Like this:
| Code: |
| [equote="Slick Site"]This is something I got from the web, ain't it cool?![/equote] |
Produces:
| From Slick Site |
| This is something I got from the web, ain't it cool?! |
|
From now on I will, my friend.
_________________
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
| Sindark Nave wrote: |
I am extremely, awfully, dreadfully, eminently, exceedingly, exceptionally, extra, greatly, highly, most, notably, very strange, peculiar, odd, queer, outlandish, and eccentric. Salutations.
|
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23
"To such devices have we descended"
A Handmaids Tale, by Margaret Atwood |
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Sindark Nave
Inner Party Leader
Post #42541
Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 1141
Total Words: 150,439
Average words per post: 131.85
PoliMatch: n/a
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Comrade Aleks
Committee Leader
Post #43400
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 635
Total Words: 75,423
Average words per post: 118.78
PoliMatch: n/a
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Posted: Thu 2007-06-14 16:17
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| Politics: Socialist |
Country: British Empire |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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Here is the flag used in the film for Eurasia
_________________
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
| Sindark Nave wrote: |
I am extremely, awfully, dreadfully, eminently, exceedingly, exceptionally, extra, greatly, highly, most, notably, very strange, peculiar, odd, queer, outlandish, and eccentric. Salutations.
|
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23
"To such devices have we descended"
A Handmaids Tale, by Margaret Atwood |
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| Back to top |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #45452
Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1
Total Words: 455
Average words per post: 455
PoliMatch: n/a
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Comrade Aleks
Committee Leader
Post #47122
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 635
Total Words: 75,423
Average words per post: 118.78
PoliMatch: n/a
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Posted: Wed 2007-09-05 16:50
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: British Empire |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| Lord Premier Alexander wrote: |
Here is the flag used in the film for Eurasia
|
Thanks. But the problem is, Eurasia has its own language, which is probably an Eurasian Newspeak form of Russian, since Russia was the dominant power of Eurasia. So, it's obviously Oceanic propaganda (the flag you posted), because it says "Eurasia". But thanks anyways. |
You seem smart with a computer, you can probably edit out the text on photoshop. I would but I do not have the software 
GDGB
Alex
_________________
Vi Veri Vniversum Vivus Vici
| Sindark Nave wrote: |
I am extremely, awfully, dreadfully, eminently, exceedingly, exceptionally, extra, greatly, highly, most, notably, very strange, peculiar, odd, queer, outlandish, and eccentric. Salutations.
|
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23
"To such devices have we descended"
A Handmaids Tale, by Margaret Atwood |
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| Back to top |
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