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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #49240
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 03:04
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| Politics: Nihilism |
Country: United States |
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| Woman, Saudi, 19, gets prison time for being raped |
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The essential story of this... story... is that a 19 year old Saudi Arabian woman tried to meet up for sex with some guy although she's apparently married, according to the CNN article below. Okay, not such a bad thing... over here in the States, I've known friends who had sex as young as 12 years of age. Over here, we'd be like... who fucking cares? She's 19, has the right to have sex if she so feels like it, and no one should bother her about it.
Problem is, a group of guys assaulted her and her lover, gang-raping her.
What happened is a 19 year old Saudi woman tried to:
I have no idea what they did with the guy, but that's not at issue here. So, once she reports the rape, she gets arrested and charged with wanting to have sex. Technically, she's been charged, on trial, and convicted, for, get this:
being in a car with a man who isn't her relative.
How fucking ridiculous is that? Anyways, at least they also arrested the men responsible for gang-raping her. They've been all sentenced from about 2-9 years in prison each. She was initially sentenced to 90 lashes and 3 months in prison, but because she talked to the media about this travesty, her sentence has been doubled.
| From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071116/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saudi_justice |
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - A Saudi court sentenced a woman who had been gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes — more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative, a newspaper reported Thursday.
The decision by the Qatif General Court came in a case that had sparked rare debate about the kingdom's justice system when it surfaced more than a year ago.
In its decision Wednesday, the court also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the 19-year-old woman, the Arab News reported on its English-language Web site.
According to Arab News, the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."
She had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting her of violating Saudi's rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.
Under Saudi Arabia's interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.
The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.
The attack took place in 2006. The woman has said that it occurred as she tried to retrieve her picture from a male high school student she used to know. While in the car with the student, two men got into the vehicle and drove them to a secluded area. She said she was raped there by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.
Reports of the story triggered debate about Saudi Arabia's legal system, in which judges have wide discretion in punishing a criminal, rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no defense lawyers are present. The result, critics say, are sentences left to the whim of judges.
The judges, appointed by the king, have a wide discretion in handing down sentences, often said to depend on their whim. A rapist, for instance, could receive anywhere from a light or no sentence, to death.
The woman was identified in the media only as the Girl from Qatif. The case was referred back to the General Court by an appeals court last summer, after the woman's attorney argued the verdict was too lenient for the rapists and unjust for the victim.
The court also banned the lawyer from defending her, confiscated his license to practice law and summoned him to a disciplinary hearing later this month.
"I explained to them that it was my job to do everything legal in order to serve my client. But they did not listen," the lawyer, Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, was quoted by the paper as saying. |
Fucking Saudi bastards. I'm so fucking angry over this; I have no idea who she is, I have no relation to her, but I'm very upset she's been not only gang-raped once but gang-raped by a court of law. Oh wait... not a court of law. A court of self-righteous pigs.
| From http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/20/saudi.rape.victim/index.html |
(CNN) -- The Saudi Justice Ministry Tuesday issued a "clarification" of a court's handling of a rape case and the increased punishment -- including 200 lashes --meted out to the victim.
Human rights groups want Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah to drop charges against the rape victim.
The case, which has sparked media scrutiny of the Saudi legal system, centers on a married woman. The 19-year-old and an unrelated man were abducted, and she was raped by a group of seven men more than a year ago, according to Abdulrahman al-Lahim, the attorney who represented her in court.
The woman was originally sentenced in October 2006 to 90 lashes. But that sentence was more than doubled to 200 lashes and six months in prison by the Qatif General Court, because she spoke to the media about the case, a court source told Middle Eastern daily newspaper Arab News.
In a statement issued to CNN, Saudi Ambassador to the United States, Adel al-Jubeir said, "This case is working its way through the legal process. I have no doubt that justice will prevail."
The Justice Ministry acknowledged in its statement Tuesday that the attorney is no longer on the case, saying he was punished by a disciplinary committee for lawyers because he "exhibited disrespectful behavior toward the court, objected to the rule of law and showed ignorance concerning court instructions and regulations."
It added that the permanent committee of the Supreme Judicial Council recommended an increased sentence for the woman after further evidence against her came to light when she appealed her original sentence.
The judges of that committee also increased the sentences for the perpetrators based on the level of their involvement in the crime. Their sentences -- which had been two to three years in prison -- were increased to two to nine years, according to al-Lahim.
The ministry also said it welcomes constructive criticism and insisted that the parties' rights were preserved in the judicial process.
"We would like to state that the system has ensured them the right to object to the ruling and to request an appeal," the statement continued, "without resorting to sensationalism through the media that may not be fair or may not grant anyone any rights, and instead may negatively affect all the other parties involved in the case."
The statement also described the progress of the woman's case and explained that it was heard by a panel of three judges, not one judge "as mentioned in some media reports."
It said the case was treated normally through regular court procedures, and that the woman, her male companion and the perpetrators of the crime all agreed in court to the sentences handed down.
In Washington, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said U.S. officials had "expressed our astonishment" at the sentence, though not directly to Saudi officials. "It is within the power of the Saudi government to take a look at the verdict and change it," he added.
White House homeland security adviser Frances Townsend, who announced her resignation Monday, called the case "absolutely reprehensible" but told CNN's "American Morning" the Saudis deserve credit for their assistance in battling terrorism. "This case is separate and apart from that, and I just don't think there's any explaining it or justifying it," she added.
The case has sparked outrage among human rights groups.
"This is not just about the Qatif girl, it's about every woman in Saudi Arabia," said Fawzeyah al-Oyouni, founding member of the newly formed Saudi Association for the Defense of Women's Rights.
"We're fearing for our lives and the lives of our sisters and our daughters and every Saudi woman out there. We're afraid of going out in the streets.
"Barring the lawyer from representing the victim in court is almost equivalent to the rape crime itself," she added.
Human Rights Watch said it has called on Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah "to immediately void the verdict and drop all charges against the rape victim and to order the court to end its harassment of her lawyer."
The man and woman were attacked after they met in Qatif on the kingdom's Persian Gulf coast, so she could retrieve an old photograph of herself from him, according to al-Lahim. Citing phone records from the police investigation, al-Lahim said the man was trying to blackmail his client. He noted the photo she was trying to retrieve was harmless and did not show his client in any compromising position.
Al-Lahim said the man tried to blame his client for insisting on meeting him that day. It is illegal for a woman to meet with an unrelated male under Saudi's Islamic law.
Al-Lahim has been ordered to attend a disciplinary hearing at the Ministry of Justice next month, where he faces a possible three-year suspension and disbarment, according to Human Rights Watch.
He told CNN he has appealed to the Ministry of Justice to reinstate his law license and plans to meet with Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ibrahim Al Al-Sheikh.
"Currently she doesn't have a lawyer, and I feel they're doing this to isolate her and deprive her from her basic rights," he said. "We will not accept this judgment and I'll do my best to continue representing her because justice needs to take place."
He said the handling of the case is a direct contradiction of judicial reforms announced by the Saudi king earlier this month.
"The Ministry of Justice needs to have a very clear standing regarding this case because I consider this decision to be judiciary mutiny against the reform that King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz started and against Saudi women who are being victimized because of such decisions," he said.
Under law in Saudi Arabia, women are subject to numerous restrictions, including a strict dress code, a prohibition against driving and a requirement that they get a man's permission to travel or have surgery. Women are also not allowed to testify in court unless it is about a private matter that was not observed by a man, and they are not allowed to vote.
The Saudi government recently has taken some steps toward bettering the situation of women in the kingdom, including the establishment earlier this year of special courts to handle domestic abuse cases, adoption of a new labor law that addresses working women's rights and creation of a human rights commission. |
Fucking pigs.
_________________
Yippykiaye motherfucker.
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comrade acrimony
Committee Member
Post #49241
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 03:40
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
Country: Oceania |
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I can't decide if this is worse than the local pissant religious Saudi boys brigade preventing schoolgirls from fleeing their burning dormitories because they were wearing night clothing and forcing them to burn alive. It makes me so angry I can hardly think. I'm out of words. Oh no, not out of opinions and bile––just words.    
I remember this story, and I'm pretty sure that the woman wasn't meeting the man for sex; he was a former boyfriend, she was engaged, and she wanted to get a picture of her he had back (a little scrupulous, but whatever).
_________________
 Wolf Wajsbrot ("Un attentat, trois déraillements")
 Tristan Tzara (Dadaïste)
As if that blind rage had washed me clean, rid me of hope; for the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself—so like a brother, really—I felt that I had been happy and that I was happy again. For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of my execution and that they greet me with cries of hate.
-L'Étranger |
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #49242
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 03:52
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| Politics: Nihilism |
Country: United States |
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| comrade acrimony wrote: |
I can't decide if this is worse than the local pissant religious Saudi boys brigade preventing schoolgirls from fleeing their burning dormitories because they were wearing night clothing and forcing them to burn alive. It makes me so angry I can hardly think. I'm out of words. Oh no, not out of opinions and bile––just words.
I remember this story, and I'm pretty sure that the woman wasn't meeting the man for sex; he was a former boyfriend, she was engaged, and she wanted to get a picture of her he had back (a little scrupulous, but whatever). |
I think this whole story raises the point that Muslims need some serious self-improvement of their culture. Personally, I can't just sit back and let them treat women, outsiders, and dissidents the way they do. Islamic law - tyranny of our age. And no, I'm not rats. I think I'm being very rational and clear in my condemnation of Islamic society, law, and religion. It's so fucking ultra-conservative it makes the fundamentalists here in America look like liberals. It's so inhumane it makes the Ten Commandments seem reasonable.
I hate Islam. It's not just this one story, or yours, it's a history of abuse, war, and intolerance rivalling the Christian history of similar elements.
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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Ygeon
Committee Member
Post #49247
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 07:36
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| Politics: Progressive |
Country: Netherlands |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| I hate Islam. |
Same over here. I tend to hate all forms of religion, this one not excluded (as some people fail to understand, this does not mean I hate all religious people).
This is a weird story. People who corporeally punish someone for being with a friend of hers in public are just pathetic... in a dangerous way.
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Becca
Minister of Peace
Post #49263
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 12:21
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| Politics: Green |
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Becca
Minister of Peace
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 13:35
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #49268
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 13:39
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| Politics: Nihilism |
Country: United States |
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| RastaSista wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
I might disagree with the death penalty, but I understand why some people support it.
I wasn't aware America punished rape victims, prohibits women from driving, stones women for having sex, suicide bombs, issues fatwas and jihads. News to me. |
I haven't said any of that. But in a way women are still disrespected , even in western countries. I mean, women get paid less for the same work and so on... that isnt as bad as the other thing, but we cant say we are a role model in all aspects and be arrogant about it, if it's just not the truth. |
Actually, you misunderstand capitalism. Women are being paid less, but it's not some big conspiracy where women are being short-changed. If a woman does less work than a man, women could say, "The man is being paid more for the same job" which is technically true, but inherently deceptive by women-advocate groups. Also, you could say, whites are paid more than hispanics for the same job. That's true. But it's because whites are more educated than hispanics generally in America, which isn't a racist comment, but a sad fact of life.
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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Becca
Minister of Peace
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 13:59
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Mephistopheles
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Post #49270
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 14:00
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| Politics: Nihilism |
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| RastaSista wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| RastaSista wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
I might disagree with the death penalty, but I understand why some people support it.
I wasn't aware America punished rape victims, prohibits women from driving, stones women for having sex, suicide bombs, issues fatwas and jihads. News to me. |
I haven't said any of that. But in a way women are still disrespected , even in western countries. I mean, women get paid less for the same work and so on... that isnt as bad as the other thing, but we cant say we are a role model in all aspects and be arrogant about it, if it's just not the truth. |
Actually, you misunderstand capitalism. Women are being paid less, but it's not some big conspiracy where women are being short-changed. If a woman does less work than a man, women could say, "The man is being paid more for the same job" which is technically true, but inherently deceptive by women-advocate groups. Also, you could say, whites are paid more than hispanics for the same job. That's true. But it's because whites are more educated than hispanics generally in America, which isn't a racist comment, but a sad fact of life. |
Pffff.... Actually women do far more than the average men and then , when they do the same job they still get paid less , and there is absolutely no reason for that. |
Cite studies that show women work harder than men. That's a pretty sexist attitude, Rasta, that women are better... notice I never said men are better, smarter, or work harder. I invoked merit.
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Becca
Minister of Peace
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 14:24
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Becca
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 14:43
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Becca
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 15:27
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Becca
Minister of Peace
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 15:28
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orwelliantherye
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 19:34
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
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I already came up with the conclusion that the Saudi government and legal system is fucked up years ago. There was even a Two-Part episode of American Dad about how the Smith family got reassigned to Saudi Arabia. Stan, being the right-winger that he is, actually enjoys it, but the women (since they may not be unescorted by a man) hate it. Eventually the entire family is sentenced to death for, among other things, stripping down to lingerie, singing in public, blasphemy, and homosexuality. Naturally, they survive. LAter, I went on Wikipedia and found out that many things in the show were surprisingly accurate (albeit not 100% so), and that the show even neglected some of the more bizarre and fucked up Saudi mores.
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Fucking Saudi bastards. I'm so fucking angry over this; I have no idea who she is, I have no relation to her, but I'm very upset she's been not only gang-raped once but gang-raped by a court of law. Oh wait... not a court of law. A court of self-righteous pigs.
....
Fucking pigs. |
Are you aware of the irony in what you just wrote, Mephi?
_________________
| Rev. Ted Haggard wrote: |
| If you only read the books I read and met the scientists I know, then you would be great like me. As you age you'll find yourself right on some things and wrong on some other things, but please, in the process, don't be arrogant. |
| Eddie Murphy wrote: |
| I was upset when I met a man with no shoes.....But then I met a man with no penis |
Veteran of the First Batshit War on rats.
Current Situation: Not Good.
Note to Self and Others: Please Avoid Carl.
Orwelliantherye; As Harmless as Kitchen. |
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Mephistopheles
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Post #49284
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 20:15
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| Politics: Nihilism |
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| orwelliantherye wrote: |
I already came up with the conclusion that the Saudi government and legal system is fucked up years ago. There was even a Two-Part episode of American Dad about how the Smith family got reassigned to Saudi Arabia. Stan, being the right-winger that he is, actually enjoys it, but the women (since they may not be unescorted by a man) hate it. Eventually the entire family is sentenced to death for, among other things, stripping down to lingerie, singing in public, blasphemy, and homosexuality. Naturally, they survive. LAter, I went on Wikipedia and found out that many things in the show were surprisingly accurate (albeit not 100% so), and that the show even neglected some of the more bizarre and fucked up Saudi mores.
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Fucking Saudi bastards. I'm so fucking angry over this; I have no idea who she is, I have no relation to her, but I'm very upset she's been not only gang-raped once but gang-raped by a court of law. Oh wait... not a court of law. A court of self-righteous pigs.
....
Fucking pigs. |
Are you aware of the irony in what you just wrote, Mephi? |
What, that every word I said is true?
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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orwelliantherye
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Post #49285
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 20:22
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| Politics: Democratic Socialist |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| orwelliantherye wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Fucking Saudi bastards. I'm so fucking angry over this; I have no idea who she is, I have no relation to her, but I'm very upset she's been not only gang-raped once but gang-raped by a court of law. Oh wait... not a court of law. A court of self-righteous pigs.
....
Fucking pigs. |
Are you aware of the irony in what you just wrote, Mephi? |
What, that every word I said is true? |
Actually, I was talking about the fact that you called them pigs, which the muslims view as unclean and to be avoided, thus explaining the irony. Yes, everything you wrote is true, but I was thinking of something else.
_________________
| Rev. Ted Haggard wrote: |
| If you only read the books I read and met the scientists I know, then you would be great like me. As you age you'll find yourself right on some things and wrong on some other things, but please, in the process, don't be arrogant. |
| Eddie Murphy wrote: |
| I was upset when I met a man with no shoes.....But then I met a man with no penis |
Veteran of the First Batshit War on rats.
Current Situation: Not Good.
Note to Self and Others: Please Avoid Carl.
Orwelliantherye; As Harmless as Kitchen. |
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Mephistopheles
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Post #49286
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Posted: Wed 2007-11-21 20:33
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| Politics: Nihilism |
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| orwelliantherye wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
| orwelliantherye wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
Fucking Saudi bastards. I'm so fucking angry over this; I have no idea who she is, I have no relation to her, but I'm very upset she's been not only gang-raped once but gang-raped by a court of law. Oh wait... not a court of law. A court of self-righteous pigs.
....
Fucking pigs. |
Are you aware of the irony in what you just wrote, Mephi? |
What, that every word I said is true? |
Actually, I was talking about the fact that you called them pigs, which the muslims view as unclean and to be avoided, thus explaining the irony. Yes, everything you wrote is true, but I was thinking of something else. |
Oh that! I see the irony. Believe it or not, I deliberately chose "pig" because I am aware Muslims have a sexual aversion to pigs. Probably repressed memories of having sex with them at early ages.
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Yippykiaye motherfucker. |
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Acebrock
Minster of Plenty
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 01:13
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| Politics: Libertarian-Socialist |
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OK, lets be a bit more reasonable about this. I admit that Saudi Arabia's just gone and done smething completely stupid, and for no justifiable reason, but you can't attribute this to all muslims. That would be like blaming all buddhists for the Japanse subway gas attack, or all asians for Pearl Harbor. It's just silly. Focus your anger at theones guilty of the crime, not those that have some sort of connection to the guilty. (see guilt by association wiki version)
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napoleon
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 11:10
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I read about the incident, too, in the Singapore Straits Times. The whole Islam culture is so fucked up, and did you read about the part where the lawyer gets fired for defending the woman???
And the woman had her sentence doubled because of
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"her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."
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What the bloody fuck does that mean? You can't even complain to the public when you're raped by 7 guys? That makes me sick. Islam culture is rotten to the core. This idiotic display only encourages more raping, since it clearly shows how women are not allowed to complain, even after being sexually abused. I bet the rape statistics in Suadi Arabia is shooting up by the moment.
What bothers me, though, is how such barbarism is still allowed to exist in today's world. Islams in the Arabic part of the world almost all anarchist: From religeon extremism (our dear Osama), to sexist behaviour towards women, to acts of uncouthness such as wiping their arse with their hands after their washroom trip. Not interfering with someone's way of life is all very good in a perfect world, but at this point, I think those swines over there need some Western culture imprinted onto them. Are the protests and demonstrations enough? No. There is no justice, unless justice comes in the form of getting 300 lashes and 6 months in jail, where she would get raped by more swines.
Excuse me, I have spoken quite strongly, since I am extremely outraged by this news. If I have offended in any ways, please point 'em out to me.
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Becca
Minister of Peace
Post #49319
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 14:19
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| Politics: Green |
Country: Germany |
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You should stop being so arrogant to fuckin bitch about all the Islam cause I bet like half of you don't even have a single clue about it anyway. This thread pisses me off.
If you wanna change something about, go and change it or join a group that defends human rights , but stop making it look like each one of them would be ok with that ! |
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Ygeon
Committee Member
Post #49338
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 18:57
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| Politics: Progressive |
Country: Netherlands |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
I wasn't aware America punished rape victims, prohibits women from driving, stones women for having sex, suicide bombs, issues fatwas and jihads. News to me. |
I wasn't aware any piece of soil ever did that.
This is quite an irrational collectivisation... you can't blame an entire country, culture, or race for any deed. It's the individuals who do things.
As for punishing rape victims, I feel no support for the Saudi judges, but the woman wasn't punished because she had been raped. She was punished because she had been in her friend's company in public.
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Mephistopheles
Filthy Animal
Post #49339
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 19:32
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| Politics: Nihilism |
Country: United States |
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| Ygeon wrote: |
| Mephistopheles wrote: |
I wasn't aware America punished rape victims, prohibits women from driving, stones women for having sex, suicide bombs, issues fatwas and jihads. News to me. |
I wasn't aware any piece of soil ever did that.
This is quite an irrational collectivisation... you can't blame an entire country, culture, or race for any deed. It's the individuals who do things.
As for punishing rape victims, I feel no support for the Saudi judges, but the woman wasn't punished because she had been raped. She was punished because she had been in her friend's company in public. |
Thanks for enlightening me, Ygeon. It's not as if my own study of this case led me to the information that she was punished for being void of a male guardian. It's not like I posted articles detailing that.
Irrational collectivization? You aren't even making coherent sense; my generalizations of Muslims has nothing coherently inherent to "collective".
You can't blame Nazi Germany? Soviet Russia? North Korea? You're daft, obviously.
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The-Eurasian-youth
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Posted: Thu 2007-11-22 20:54
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| Politics: Brotherhood |
Country: Eurasian Dynasty |
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If America and Britain are really out to stop "Islamofascism", why close relations with the richest and most oppressive Islamic country?
It's like the Allies, invading Italy and Romania, reducing both to rubble, and then inviting Hitler round for tea.
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Beautiful Humdrum
Outer Party
Post #49351
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Posted: Fri 2007-11-23 16:09
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| Politics: Obviously Wrong Party |
Country: None of your damned business |
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| The-Eurasian-youth wrote: |
| If America and Britain are really out to stop "Islamofascism", why close relations with the richest and most oppressive Islamic country? |
Because we can suck oil out of them, and Americans like money. I'm sure you knew that, though.
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| and did you read about the part where the lawyer gets fired for defending the woman??? |
...You're just joshin' us, right? No? That's fucked up...
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| OK, lets be a bit more reasonable about this. I admit that Saudi Arabia's just gone and done smething completely stupid, and for no justifiable reason, but you can't attribute this to all muslims. That would be like blaming all buddhists for the Japanse subway gas attack, or all asians for Pearl Harbor. It's just silly. Focus your anger at theones guilty of the crime, not those that have some sort of connection to the guilty. (see guilt by association) |
...But that's not going to stop the fact that we think they're morons.
Oh well.
Still, I'm waiting for another stupid shit thing like this.
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bman
Prole
Post #49352
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Posted: Fri 2007-11-23 17:05
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| Politics: Progressive |
Country: Uranus |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| You can't blame Nazi Germany? Soviet Russia? North Korea? You're daft, obviously. |
No, Totalitarian institutions are always to be blamed. Things like religion, culture, and race are tools that are used to divert attention from the real problem. This is what allows an event in a nation supported by the US like this to fit in with anti-Islam feeling, It isn't the government's fault, it is just that rotten Islamic culture again.
It would be like blaming German culture, or the German race (or any sort of fascist ideology in general, which is not all Nazi by any means) for the holocaust as opposed to the Nazi regime.
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Ygeon
Committee Member
Post #49375
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Posted: Sat 2007-11-24 18:42
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| Politics: Progressive |
Country: Netherlands |
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| Mephistopheles wrote: |
You can't blame Nazi Germany? Soviet Russia? North Korea? You're daft, obviously. |
I can blame these countries' leaders, and all who help them. I can't blame a piece of territory, for sure!
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bman
Prole
Post #49380
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Posted: Sat 2007-11-24 23:36
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| Politics: Progressive |
Country: Uranus |
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Post Rating: 0.0/4 (0 votes cast) |
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| Quote: |
| I can blame these countries' leaders, and all who help them. I can't blame a piece of territory, for sure! |
True. I am not saying you feel this way, Mephi, but many Americans feel that Muslim culture creates situations like this and therefore "they can't handle democracy". This is an obviously corrupt justification for tyranny.
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